How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Welcome to the How Leaders Think Podcast. A show that transforms

your thinking by renewing your mind with new ways to

see the world, work and life.

I'm your host Kenny Lang, and with me today is Andy Christansen.

Andy is the owner, founder, and chief encouragement

officer of AC and Company. He is a three time entrepreneur,

best selling mentorship, author. Got the book right here. Go check

it out. It's on Amazon. And he has proven anyone

can succeed. If you are curious, gritty, and humble,

welcome to the show Andy. Thanks Kenny,

great to be with you. Well, man, I know we are probably going to have

a ball andy chase a few rabbit trails and hopefully everybody stays

with us because it will be fun, energizing, and entertaining.

Just make sure you keep your eyes on the road for those of you

who are doing that and maybe pay attention to your surroundings, don't laugh

so hard you run into traffic if you're on a jog. But my

first question to you is what's on your mind lately?

Well, since you say lately, I was

with the Air Forcemarines last week and this

is the first thought that came to me when I heard that question.

And I was there for,

let's see, we're going on it was 18 months between this particular

group that I was with there and the

revisit to the same particular group, but different participants.

Andy, they brought up the author Epitis

again and they seem to have him as their beginning

nugget before the teacher gets up there me in this scenario

for that week and teaches on the lesson that I'm there

to teach on leadership. What's that have to do with anything? And who cares

about Epitis? Epitis is one of those historical

authors that has this basic message of

live on purpose. The one thing he would teach is live

on purpose. And what struck me was these

guys think this author,

this thought leader, is so important that they're willing to have him

as their opener for every

session. And they go through 22

sessions. So 22 Epitis Episodes

Andy, why does that matter to anybody? Because his

main theme is others. Like have integrity, be about others.

And it struck me while I was there how little

we do and how there's a leadership crisis

today, even though we have more books and gurus, you me included,

than ever before. But leadership is getting worse,

if you believe what Gallup says about

all the polling they do. So I wonder, and this is

what's really on my mind in a sentence, is leadership

failing or not getting better? Maybe that's a better way to say it.

It's not getting progressively better to keep up

with the changing times because maybe we're not others focused enough,

which is what leadership is all about. We just talk about it, but we don't

really do it. That's what's on my mind. I'm wondering

that. No, well, as someone

if you're familiar with working genius. Wonder is one of my

geniuses. So I'm all good with wonder, and I will explore anything

and everything. So is leadership getting

worse in the sessions

you run, the literature you're reading, the Gallup polls, those sort of things,

what are you seeing as sort of the current thinking?

The prevailing wisdom about leadership as it

exists andy is trending today, man.

It almost seems like flavor of the Month Club. Everybody's got

their theory and or their book andy

they're just working it to get

their message out there, and a company will hire that person,

and then everyone thinks they need to absorb that message.

And I don't know if that's the case or not or should be the case,

that we should be going after one message. I was just

on with an Air Force pilot

before we got on the phone, and she said this. She said,

Every model is wrong except the one

that's useful. I was like, Man, I got to think

about that for a while. And I've been thinking about it. It seems like everybody

has their own model, but does

it work for everyone? I heard a

version of that statement that went it said,

every model is flawed, but some are useful.

Right. And what's funny is I

was on a call earlier today and we

were talking about the difference between

system and soul, which you and I are

proponents of. But there's other systems and frameworks out

there. And we're also noticing

in some cases, people are looking for that one system,

that one theory like you're talking about, to rule them all.

Do you think that pursuit number

one, is that at the root of it? And number two, if so,

is that what's making things get worse?

Because it's I don't know what you call a

fruitless pursuit? Maybe.

Yeah. I think if you got 20 of us in a room, at least

ten of us would have different opinions on that question. Maybe all 20 of us

would. But I'm one of those guys that can complicate

anything if you give me long enough. But if you give me just a

little bit more time, I will take something to the extreme

of complicated, and then I'll make it simple.

And I have to make this simple. I think as I've been going through this

in my journey of running companies and starting

Andy, selling and failing and succeeding at various

things, I think it comes down to something simple.

We need to learn to be more than do.

We need to be a good leader more than do. Right.

Leadership stuff. And it's about others more

than ourselves. And I put this is in my

book. I think this was inspired that we

should be interested more than interesting.

And I think those are the simple facts that we're

given two eyes, Andy. They're in front of us. You know,

they don't look inside of us.

They don't look at us. We look away. We look forward.

And I think it's just been given to us in our anatomy,

we have two ears, two eyes, and one mouth,

and that's four to one. So if

we're listening and watching Peter Drucker, if you know

the name, he was the Simon Sinnick of

30 years ago, the Brene Brown Simon Sinnick

of 30 years ago, management guru. Before he died, he had three

articles in The Wall Street Journal, and almost

entirely they were summed up by saying,

great leaders are great listeners.

I know Mike Drop and we're done. Thank you for joining the show.

No, so great leaders are great

listeners, and I

would totally, totally agree. And I think if we were

in that room with those 20 people, I don't think you'd find anybody

who would disagree with that statement, right?

But if that is the case, then what

aren't all these leadership gurus, these leadership

experts, these framework creators,

designers, what aren't they listening to?

Because if you are, you're saying you're a leader and

you're trying to lead leaders, right? Because that's what all these books

and frameworks and courses and seminars are about.

Shouldn't you be listening to the marketplace?

Shouldn't you be listening to the pains and the challenges and the problems

and crafting a solution for that? And if that

is the truth and nobody would disagree with it, then why

is there a decline in effective leadership?

What false story are they believing about the world

and what's needed? I don't know

about you, but I'll just beat up on myself for

a moment. I know when I drink coffee in the morning,

I should not drink it like a melted donut, but I

do like it that way. Maybe I should just drink

it black, not put the sugar and the cream in it.

But I justify it by it's only a cup.

It's only one cup. And I drink water in the morning. I do

vitamins and I exercise. I do a lot of good things, but I like

that coffee that way. And I just wonder if we're so inundated

with things that distract us from what we know is a

better way to do a thing.

We're busy, we're distracted, it's noisy, and we're

going to get to it. I have a tool,

I'll get it to you. And if you want to send it out or make

it available somewhere, feel free. It's called Listening Boot Camp,

and it's a seven day exercise where I've got a

little checklist. Andy, just be intentional to listen to somebody once

a day, like go out of your way to not talk and

just listen. Andy, the best way to listen is to

ask a good question, a question you really want to hear the answer to.

Like, for example, what I do, I love to hear what people say

about, hey, if you had a million dollars, well, 10 million. If you

had $10 million, in the bank. What would

you do for work? I don't know why

that interests me so much, but it always has, and it still does,

and it may always in the future. So I ask people where

they're from. I love geography. I love traveling. I love to hear where

people are from. I probably know a restaurant in their town, and we'll

start talking about it, and there's an instant connection, and they feel heard,

and they feel valued, and that makes me feel good.

I don't know why. I don't know if I learned it or I was born

this way, but I like to be interested in people.

So I think we have to build that muscle. I don't know how

we got off onto listening. I don't know if that's like a

podcast killer. Everyone just tuned out like, that's boring.

But, man, it's a superpower.

Try it. If you're listening, just try it,

andy. See if it makes sense. If you're listening, go listen.

We probably lost all the people that actually needed to hear it

because they stopped listening, and they're the ones who needed it the most.

Then it might be fair to say current thinking is,

let's talk our way through the

current state of leadership, not listen.

I think we've talked about it at a high level. You've mentioned it is

if leadership Is getting worse. You mentioned the gallup poll, which I'd be interested

in knowing more about what their data says.

What has been the impact of

this lack of listening in leadership?

Wow, that's a great question. I don't know if I have

the answer, but I do notice that we have

a hiring shortage and crisis. We have a retention

crisis. And I wonder how much of that

is the lack of investing

in other people, being interested in other people. I'll give you an example.

When COVID hit, a few of my clients had a tough time finding andy

keeping talent. And I said, hey, our company can

help you with that. Do you want us to do that? Andy one company,

blue collar company, supplements manufacturer here in atlanta.

Our team became the primary recruiter and

reviewer. Like we did 30, 60, 90 day reviews.

We spent time recruiting and everything

you can imagine to make people feel valuable and build the culture.

We reduced turnover 56%

in that year, and retention was over 90%. And this is

an entry level, pretty much blue collar,

dusty, not glamorous job that people were coming

into. And I think the reason, andy, that's what everybody

wants to hear. I think the reason I believe the reason was

we treated every person that walked through that door

or on the phone for the initial interviews with respect.

Something so simple of an interview, I'd say, hey, thanks for making

time. They're like, you're thanking me for making time.

I'm the one that wants the job. Think you for making time. I said no,

thank you. You have a choice which airline you're going to fly.

Thank you for choosing us, Andy. Just respectful,

I'm not trying to schmooze them. I'm being respectful of my fellow man

or woman. And I say, hey, I'd really like to grab, like,

1520 minutes. Can I just hear your story and what you're looking for?

And I'll tell you our story and what we're looking for. Very honoring, very basic,

very just matter of fact. And then

if I liked them, I say, Come on for an interview. And I said,

I'm going to give you a tour. I don't put them in some office and

shine a light in their face. There's a place for that somewhere,

I guess, but let me take them on a tour. Like, hey, thanks for

coming in. Thanks for taking time out of your day. Let me tell you what

we do, bro. I'm interviewing them the whole time,

and I'm making an assessment. We're not going to hire everyone. And then

I'm asking them I'm asking them questions. Can they think? Can they introduce themselves to

people? Are they asking good questions? And then when they come on board,

we give them a really good introduction. The first time they show up to work,

we're like, hey, welcome. We've got the day planned

out for you. We even give them a sample work day before they'd even come

to work to want to see if they like it. Why waste time hiring

someone if they don't like it? But I think with all of that, leadership is

about investing in the other person.

Chickfila has figured out that training is the most

important thing for retention. They just bought a university.

What does the military figured out? Hey, come serve us and we'll

pay for your college. Chickfila saying, hey, come serve with

us and we'll pay for your college. It's pretty brilliant. And the

employee believes that if you're investing in me, you care about me.

If you give me health care, you care about me. If there are free snacks

in the office, you care about me.

So the baby boomers are beat up on my own kind.

They think it's just some game we're playing, like, oh, they want free snacks

and ping pong tables and draft

beer and cold brewed coffee. I'm like,

yeah, they do, because it says you care about them. Do you care about them?

Do you? Or are they just a number?

If you still haven't answered the question? But I think the millennials

and centennials, which are under 40 years old now,

and then centennials, are 25 and under. So 40 to 26

and 25 to 18. I think

they're just looking for something a little above

normal. I think they're

just looking for purpose. They're looking for mentorship. Help me

grow. Convince me that this is a great place for me to

spend my time. It's not complicated. While they don't show up

for work, have you thought about why they don't

while it's still wrong. It's not on me to get them to show up to

work. Maybe it is to some degree.

Maybe it is. Have you built a good environment and culture? Are you

kind? Are you tough and kind like every millennial? Sorry, I'll get

off my rant, I'm going to land the airplane. Think is my

pet peeve of baby boomers. And millennials,

everybody. It's not that millennials are saying,

coddle me. I mean, maybe it looks like that.

I think they're just saying, is there anything good here? Or is this just

a really hard, tough culture?

They just want us to give them free food and you don't have to show

up to work. I'm like, that's not what they're asking for. They're asking for purpose,

mentorship, kindness,

authenticity, transparency, things that are simple to do

that basically cost no money. Andy, they're willing

to work for that. And I just think they want

challenge, too. They're not just saying, treat me and coddle me.

I can accept a challenge if it's worth being challenged

for. Anyway, that's my take on

leadership. I think we're missing the mark on one thing.

Primarily, we really don't care. We're not

showing we care about people. That's my opinion. So if

you were diving deeper and that's part of the

work you and I do in the world with

teams is we hear something and we keep digging and digging and digging.

Right. Because it's sort of what's the question behind the question?

There you go. So you mentioned listening,

but do you think if we were to keep exploring that further

down with leaders that are struggling

with this, that have this unproductive way of thinking,

it's not a failure to listen or

a lack of listening. It's apathy.

It's a failure to care, maybe. Because if you cared,

then you would listen. Is that

fair to say? Or do you feel like those are in different order? Yeah,

I'd have to ponder that. I can't disagree with

that. I think if nothing else, they're on the same side of the line

of scrimmage. Like they're both on defense or they're both on offense.

I think they're offense, but maybe one's a running back and one's a

quarterback, but I think they're on the same side of the

same team. Each other. I think so,

yeah. I just think we're making it possibly too

complicated. Patrick Lynchione,

you mentioned his personality tool. We're both fans of his.

He's so simple, man. I read

stuff that he writes and I start swearing.

I'm angry that I didn't think of it first because it's

so simple and I have so much respect

for him and their team and how they go about their business because

he's just back to basics. Like three signs

of a miserable job, which is now called something

about employee engagement. The truth about employee engagement.

They renamed it, and it's basically every employee

wants three things. They want to be measured.

Really? Yeah. They want to know when they score a touchdown. We all do.

Or we'll get bored. They don't want to be measured for all the bad

stuff only. So measurement purpose,

andy, do you care about me? Do I

matter? Do you see me? So those three things are

so simple. And even in companies I go into,

they're not doing even the simple things like that. But here's what they're doing.

They're so good. Most entrepreneurs are good at their product or their service and

they're customer facing,

focused. But I think

Richard Branson has it crushed, man, he nailed it. He's like the

business world gets it backwards. You're not supposed to focus on shareholders,

customers and then employees. You need to reverse that

and first focus on your employees,

then customers, then shareholders. Because if you do that

inside out, everybody's happy. But if

you do it the first way, generally you get a bunch of turnover,

a bunch of employees that don't care, and then you're just

like, employees suck. Well, right.

And then it's a downward spiral. Yeah. And I think leadership

here's an interesting thing, the rule of nine. I heard this from a guy named

Jim Dethemer years ago. He said you can only manage nine people well.

And if you're a typical family of four, that leaves five

people at work that you can manage well in your life.

And so who are your five? And if you're a business owner listening

today, good luck trying to go beyond five. I mean,

you're just going to start getting crispy. But if you can train those five

to then work with their five andy, their five with their

five. Now you've got the military model.

Next man, next woman up.

Right. Well, by those numbers I'm screwed because I

have five kids. You're done,

man. I'm done. I've reached my limit.

No, I love that the military uses that.

You have a team of six. One is a leader and they're managing their

five. I think Dave Ramsey and his entree leaders,

materials and everything talks about that, that has governed their

leadership and hierarchy model for their chart

and has served them rather well in addition to some other things

that have made them now the 300 million dollar

company plus I can't keep up anymore.

Amazing.

But that is intriguing. So if

we care and if we listen, then maybe

I would suggest, and I'd be curious of your take if if we're

showing care, compassion, we're being that other centered

we have another centered way of being that you were

talking about at the top of the call or

discussion conversation. But we're also

really listening, not just hearing, but we're listening

to the people that we have been given charge

over to lead and improve.

Then maybe we don't need as

many systems and frameworks and things.

We would actually be able to discern the signal from the

noise in the marketplace when it comes to finding the

right tools to bring in, because I don't think you're

ever going to stop high level driven

leaders andy entrepreneurs from consuming

the latest trend. Right. It's never

going to stop coming, and you're not going to stop those people from

consuming and digesting it.

But through compassion and

really listening, they may actually be able to sort out,

oh, this is what my people need.

This is actually what would help. I don't have to bring in ten things.

I can bring in two things because I found the two things that actually would

be meaningful and helpful in this situation, and that doesn't cast aspersions

on the other things. It just means I don't have to run my

people ragged with that flavor of the month

mentality. Yeah,

you might be right. I think we need systems.

I think we need frameworks, because it keeps

us between the lines, so to speak, and we don't crash into the mountain or

go over the cliff. But I would just say

before we jump off this topic or we end the convo,

let me just ask you, Kenny, when somebody takes a real,

genuine interest in you, andy says something like, hey, man, tell me

how you're doing. You're like, I'm doing well.

Walk me through it. What's been going on? Tell me

about your weekend. And you can tell they really want to hear about it.

And so you go to another level of conversation, right?

Yeah. If that happens, how does that make you feel.

Even just from the question?

It flashes me back to my first company, which is a digital marketing

agency. And as

I talked to business owners about how they wanted to represent themselves online

in the marketplace and search, everybody's talking

SEO and search results, and I got to be found and send out these emails

and all these things, I was like, okay, but let's boil it down. What is

it that they're actually looking for? They wanted to be seen.

And they wanted to be heard. Yeah.

Because if you feel seen and you feel heard, then you feel that your

existence matters.

Boom. And I wonder if that's the epicenter.

We all want to matter. We want to be

known for something that's valuable. I heard this

the other day. I hate to keep bringing up military examples, but that's what's popping

in my mind, that this event I was doing in New

York and the current retired colonel started

it off, and she mentioned this guy that would

say one of her superiors every morning he'd say, listen, nobody wakes up

today wanting to suck.

I'm like that's. Interesting. And the more I thought about it, I think

he's right. There might be some people to use your word earlier that

are apathetic, but I bet there's a reason originally

they didn't wake up wanting to suck.

People want to win. So as a leaders, isn't our job to

set other people up for success? And that means some need to

be challenged. Yes, some need to be coddled, if that's what

you want to call it. But if they need to be coddled all day long,

they're in the wrong company. They need to be in a nursery,

not a business. Or there's a deeper issue that you are not

equipped nor called to help them through, and they

need somebody else. You're just a mixed match,

I think, like a millennial, even though I'm clearly not.

But if you were managing me, Andy, you checked in with

me every day, like, hey, how are you doing? Are you hitting your numbers?

I historically was a sales guy in my career. I'd be

like the first couple of days, I'd be like, yeah, I'm moving in the right

direction. Why do you keep asking? Well, I just want to make sure you're

on track. Man. That would so demotivate me.

I just want to come up with a number for the end of the month

or week, leave me alone, and I'm going to come

in and crush it. And then all I want from you is a high five.

There are millennials that are like that, and we're calling them lazy

and we're micromanaging them, and that's why they're quitting.

We don't understand autonomy piece. What Daniel

Pink talked about in his book drive,

right? Is that people want that autonomy. You and I

use the acronym Car with the System and Soul model is

that leaders are charged with creating clarity about the

work. What does winning look like?

Providing the autonomy and the tools to go do it. Andy then

holding accountable for results, which nobody really

mind. Like you said, they want to be measured, but what's

the tool is it clear what I'm being measured against,

and I don't mind being held to that standard so long as it's clear.

But then let me just go do my daggum job. Just let me go

do this work. Especially if they are motivated. Andy obviously, there's always

one off circumstances, and it doesn't look the same for everybody,

but the principles are still there, right?

Yeah. Zig Ziggler is an OG

motivational speaker, but he has a great quote that says,

you can get everything in life you want if you simply help enough other

people get what they want. Andy I

think that's the main job of a manager. Find out or leader.

Find out what motivates the other person and then

just help them do it. You're only as good as your team.

This is not rocket science, but I think we've made it either too

complicated or we're simply not doing the

stuff we know we need to do. We know better.

We're just not doing better. Yeah,

no, I would agree with you. When I hear people say it's not

rocket science, I think of a guy that worked for me. He had some great

but very goofy sayings, and one of them, he would say, he goes, it ain't

rocket surgery. Nice.

In getting back to the listening, the compassion, helping people

get what they want. So for

that leaders that's listening right now,

they're jogging, they're running, they're driving. Maybe they pulled over because this

is such an action packed episode and they just couldn't be distracted

with anything else. But what would you tell that person

so that they could take action in the next 24 hours?

Right. Because it's great to listen to these things and God forbid

this conversation and selfishly, the entire

podcast, but God forbid this conversation turns into another piece

of noise in the ether, what is somebody

going to do to ground themselves and what they just heard so that

they are better 24 hours from now? Yeah, great question.

And I'm going to tell you real quick, and then I'll give you a story

to back it up. And I'm going to send you a tool if people want

to get a hold of it that they can just download and

follow this outline and basically it's have a one to one generation with one

other person. Just find one other person, make it.

At work or just anywhere. Anywhere,

wherever you feel most comfortable and simply say, hey,

can I get five minutes of your time? Andy? Somebody's going to

probably say, yeah, what's up? Say, I just like

to hear your story. I don't really know where

you worked before here, or I don't know what you

did before we met. I'd love to hear

your story. And they might say, well, let's grab a coffee or lunch. Okay,

that's even better. But if you can only tough

out five minutes, say, hey, I'm a terrible listener, but I'm going to do my

best to give five minutes because I heard this podcast, andy I think I need

to do it. I'm building the muscle. But I haven't been in the gym in

a long time, so help me out. But I really

want to hear your story. I really do. Here's the

example. I was district manager, Gallow Winery out in California.

Andy I was sucking wind, man. I was so

bad. And I don't know why, but looking back on it,

I was simply flying by

the instruments. I couldn't just look out and fly.

And I wasn't really reading the instruments right. I was managing

by the book. Andy I wasn't being

human. I didn't know that at the time. I was doing it the way they

taught me to do it. And so I knew I was going to get fired.

So I asked this guy, Sean Delaney, one of my reps, I said, hey,

man, could we get together this weekend?

And he's like, I don't think any of these guys liked

me. They were scared of me. And he's like, what are you talking about?

I was walking out to the car with him in the parking lot. I said,

Man, I'm probably going to get fired because I guess I'm apparently not very

good. At my job, and you could just see the whole like he

just opened up and he's like, really?

Andy I said, yeah, I just want to have a beer with you and just,

I'd love to hear about your life, Matt. I don't know anything about you.

He like, tilts his head like a deer, like a dog

looking at you, dumbfounded. And he said,

yeah. So we got together and we probably spent an hour

there at the pub. And I was being

way more myself than I was as a leader because I'm a personable

guy. Andy we're walking out of that bar and he said,

hey, can I give you a piece of advice? I said yeah. He said,

well, first of all, this was the best meeting I've ever had at Gala

Winery. I feel more heard, more appreciated.

I'm sorry you're not going to be here because you're actually

a decent dude, but you ought to do this with every other

guy on the team before you depart. And I'm like

that's weird, but okay. So I did

like that. Next week I got with every guy. They were

all the same reaction. Andy so here's the deal. My team was in last

place. Here's the payoff. I get called up

to corporate in La. And my bosses want to talk to me,

and I'm like, yeah, here it is. So I walk in and they're like,

what are you doing? I'm like, what do you mean? I'm just ready

for being fired. They said, what are you doing with your team?

Same thing I've always been doing. They said, well, your numbers are way

up. And they're frustrated because now they can't fire

me. They had justification, and I don't know if they wanted

to, but the last person on the list, you just get rid of

them. They're obviously no good. And I said,

well, I did meet with each guy and kind of had a beer with

them. They're like, well, that's not it. What else are you doing? I went

pretty much the same think by the end of the

month, we were in first place. Wow.

Because I kept treating these guys now that I got to know them. I'd see

Sean Delaney the next week and I go, hey, how's your baby girl

Jessica doing? Because he had just had a baby. And he lights

up, man. He lights up like, oh, thanks for asking. You know what?

She had a sniffle and we can sleep last night.

I start having more compassion and empathy and maybe empathy is the key

word here. Andy I end up getting promoted,

like a year later. Go figure.

Wow. So take time. Just get to know people so

everybody. You can have a five minute conversation, even if

you're a sucky conversationalist. So find somebody and

go build that muscle. I think the gym is a great thing because I'm

about to go and. Pump it up at the gym.

Yeah, every day, I'm reminded of how weak

I am training for this half Iron Man thing.

So you're a beast trying

I'm just trying to catch up with you, brother. I've only

done one. You can get there. But that's impressive.

One is greater than zero fair.

So, listener, listeners, tens of

people are listening right now. It's my joke, but I

do hope that you go and you find that one person, Andy,

as somebody who I

have some similar stories to what Andy just shared.

As I sucked as a manager, and I tried to do

all these different things and follow the pattern of everybody else.

But when I started prioritizing one on ones with my team,

we really started to pull together and achieve some things that

for a group of people in our 20s with no

prior experience in a particular industry. We pulled off something that

put us in 14% of small businesses

nationwide, and none

of us were all that brilliant. Yeah, it works.

But we pulled together, and we got to know each other, and something

just started to happen. So I am 100%

behind what Andy just shared and what he's encouraging you to do.

And if you have some great stories, email me,

kenny@kennylang.com. I'll pass them along to Andy as well.

But, Andy, I've so enjoyed this conversation.

You're definitely getting an invite back.

If you'll join me, I'm sure we could ponder about a million

different things. But if people want to learn more about you,

the work you're doing, andy putting out in the world, or maybe they want

to bring you into their organization, where do you send people?

Where should they be finding you? Yeah, thank you for asking. The easiest

place is, my name Andy.

Andy@christansen.com.

And it's Christian. S-E-N.

And pretty simple. And then I've got a podcast called Tenacious,

where it's entrepreneurs who have overcome great challenges

discussing how they've done it.

Awesome. Go find,

like, subscribe all those cool action words

that everybody tells you you're supposed to say about podcasts, but go find Andy's

podcast. Email him. He's also a

great follow on LinkedIn. He puts out some

phenomenal content. I saw you just put out a two

question thing for talent earlier today,

so everybody go check him out. Andy, thank you so

much. I enjoyed this. My pleasure.

Sounds good, brother. Have a good one.

You close.