How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

No more, no more bad bosses. You know, all that type

of stuff is what got me through the door.

And then the door closes behind you and you realize there's no door

handle that you can't open it up again.

Welcome to the How Leaders Think podcast, a show that transforms

you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I'm your host,

Kenny Lang, and with me today is Tom Richard. He is

the co founder and CEO of Unlimited Tech

Solutions. As an experienced sales executive, tom has

understood the importance of a high performance rev ops

stack. He began getting curious as to

why there wasn't more innovation around the HubSpot

platform for revenue operations.

After a little exploration and meeting his co

founder, Cornet Van Drill. He is an engineer

and a solution design expert, and the two of them paired really

well, and so they formed Unlimited Tech Solutions, which is a

rev ops consultancy focused exclusively on the

HubSpot platform. Tom also lives in Florida

with his kids and probably a view of the

beach at some point that he would rub in my

face. He's also a good friend, a client, and

I'm excited to have him on. Welcome, Tom. Welcome,

Kenny. And that was the most amazing intro I've ever heard.

So kudos, kudos to you. Kudos to you. We're off to

an awesome start. I'm getting a little bit better with every

episode. Just the enthusiasm, some ad libbing.

I try to keep it fun. That's what we're here to do.

Well, Tom, tell me what is on your mind.

Well, what is on my mind? That's always a good question.

Lots of things from time to time with that

intro. Let me start there because it'll kind of get you

into what's on my mind. I feel like Peter Griffin on the you know, what

really grinds my gears.

The said the phrase. He said the phrase. He said the phrase.

What's on my mind? What is on my mind

would be in hearing

my intro that you just read, right? Where it's like, oh, Thomas

tinkering and pushing.

Yes. But you know, really why we started it. And it's what's on my mind

is too

much guruism out there in

the marketplace. And I saw a LinkedIn post the other day that said

something about I'm going to paraphrase this and I might mess it up, but it

said something about how it's more valuable to

be creative than it is to do good

work. And I was reading all the

comments, and there was overwhelming support for that

sentiment. I might have messed up the quote, but I couldn't

disagree more. I couldn't

disagree more. Right. There's a lot of these

business gurus and these weekend warriors who

wrote a book or read a book, and the got

the seven point formula for success.

And what's on my mind is

I really find it refreshing when I run into other business leaders

who simply focus on doing good work.

It's just really understanding their work product, really doing

passionate about their work product and just

doing good work. For all the

podcasts and books and posts out there,

it's like a one page book. Do good work.

Tell people about it.

Marketing. That's it. That's it. Podcast over. Podcast over.

That's it. Bam. We're done. All right. So I think

everybody will appreciate their time back.

Didn't even finish their warm up or their workout. So

apart from being passionate,

what does good work mean to you, and what

are you seeing in terms of because obviously there's a lot of people doing a

lot of work, and maybe not all of it's

crappy, but it seems like there's a particular

brand of work that your statement is meant

to oppose. Not necessarily.

It's about authenticity. So I'm going to share some behind

the curtain stuff here on the podcast. So when Kenny and I

were just getting ready to start the podcast, his statement to me

was, people need to be able to get something out of this

podcast. If they don't take something away or make a change or

do something different to benefit their lives, then why I'm

going to paraphrase, but why even do it? Why even listen?

That's what I mean by good work. How are you

benefiting somebody? How are you serving

somebody? Is somebody better off today because you came

to work? Is somebody better off today because of something you invented?

Have you helped or make somebody's life better because

of what you have provided? Right? And so

that's what I mean by good work. Everybody is here for a

reason. Everybody has something to contribute.

When you find that thing, you find that passion. You find

that authenticity. And man, don't lose that

focus. It's so easy to lose that focus. You had a bad

quarter. You had a bad month. You got bills to pay,

right? You read some

get rich quick book about the world's

easiest funnel to make you rich over the weekend type

of book. And then you've got a

great funnel with no actual product, with no actual

work product. Whereas if you just are out

there helping folks doing good work,

man, other things really line up behind

you. Anyway,

that makes me think of a quote, and I know you love

Southern isms, or at least pretending that

I love Southern isms, but I enjoy your.

Southern isms as you speak them just because they're hilarious to

me. So one that actually came

to mind and what you're saying is a lot of the

here's seven quick ways to make a million dollars in the next 72 hours

sort of stuff is we might say that the are all hat and

no cattle. I like that. It's a good one.

Yeah, right? Like, you're dressed up like you're a rancher, but

you live in a one bedroom apartment. You don't actually

have any land, and you don't have any cattle. There's nothing behind

it. A more common one might be

like, all sizzle and no steak. Yeah,

nothing wrong with dressing like a cowboy or having some sizzle, but

I think what I hear you saying is, first make sure

there's an actual steak on the plate. Like, make sure the thing

that matters is there. If you want to dress up like a cowboy, if you

want to have some sizzling, fajitas coming out, whatever, the

smoke is fine. But just make sure you've

got the thing that is actually most important there first. Is that fair

to say? Yeah. Another thing I was reading the other day, which I really

liked, and I'll try not to butcher it, but it was talking about founder, CEOs,

and it just said, you should be doing three things

talking to customers, building your product, building your

team. And I'm like, wow. Well

said. Well said. Right.

The one I'm talking about, at least where I opened with anyway, is

really that product. Like, what's the product? Right.

In all transparency, I don't know if Kenny already mentioned this, I

forgot, but we're a client of Kenny's and we're on S

Two. So that work

product, I reached out to him, we've been in business a little over two years

and reached out to him in December when we really

started growing, because I knew he was starting his

business and I know him personally, and it was basically like,

hey, man, I'm drowning. We're growing.

We got all this stuff happening. I need a way to be able tom put

it together. I need a way to organize it. Right.

Which is really that build the team piece. At least it was for

us. At least it was for when I reached out, because I had the talking

to customers part down and the product

was coming along right. So I didn't have a lot of concerns there. But, boy,

I didn't know where to start on the team and working with

you and putting that stuff in place. It's been, what, six

months? Feels like a year, but it's been about six months. And,

man, we got people in the right place doing the right things, and things are

really going well. But the one I just kind of opened with, and again, I'm

not going to say I'm some kind of guru or business

advisor or anything in that front. It's just a lot

of folks are always looking for the quick fix

in the next big thing. And that's fine.

I'm not no judgment, but just make sure that

the work product maybe a little, but the work product is good,

that's all. Just because there's so many things I see out there,

and even if you find a quick fix,

it's not going to last unless you got a good product. Unless you got a

good product. And I include service in product when I use

that. Sure. So what do you

hear and what have you observed in terms

of the thinking? I mean, there is the get rich quick, which I think

probably catches more eyes. It's the instagram

entrepreneur. You maybe rented a Ferrari for the day,

took a few pictures and said, I will teach you to be

rich. And that's not me hitting out at that book or anything like that,

but that's sort of the vibe they give off. But are

there other ways in which people

are thinking about business that isn't

putting their product, their service the main thing?

I'm here to help people. What else is getting in the way

of people? Starting with how can I help?

Yeah. As far as getting away or removing obstacles, let me say it this

way. Let me say

if the goal is

to feel stable, to have

peace, to have harmony, to feel grounded, to feel like

you're making a contribution to the world, to really

have those aspects, money is a part of that.

Money will flow

to where it needs to. If that's the

goal, I think you need to build your house on a

foundation. And I believe in

everybody's different way, the foundation ultimately

is going to be one of service, and it's going to

be evident

in your motives. If your motives are service,

in whatever way, that's going to be a

strong foundation that you're going to be able

to build your skills on, build your products on.

And service can mean anything. Service can

mean anything. But if your motive is and again, this is

going to sound judgmental, but if your motive is, I just

want millions of dollars, period.

Yeah, I'm sure people listening are going to be

like, oh, I got examples, though, and that's fine. But

my experience is when you put the motive first and you're building on a strong

foundation, I want to build a good product. I'm passionate about this thing

that I do, that everything else will

fall in alignment to support that.

Got you. That's been my experience. That's been my experience.

Yeah. I don't think you're saying that

making money or making millions is wrong. No,

that happened. Shouldn't be there. Yeah, that's the natural

outcome, but yeah, that's the outcome

as opposed to the motivation behind the work, because

it's not a very compelling why, at least

not for. Money. Motives

aren't bad either. I'm not saying money motives aren't at all. It's the

shortcuts that I see people just tripping

up on themselves. So anyway, would you ask kind of

what's on my mind? That's what's on my mind because

I got a few focus in my life

that I know personally that kind of got tripped up into that type

of thing, and so it was kind of fresh on my mind there. Yeah,

especially if you're good at sales, whether you're a founder or you're just a

sales rep or something like that, it can be easy to get tripped up by

that because you're making sales and so it's like, well, how much more

can I make? Regardless if you really care about what

you're doing, what you're selling, how it gets serviced on the back end,

right. Which I know is a huge point

of priority for you and your work is

in your case, can my team deliver on what I just

sold, what I just promised? Right. That

there's an integrity not in the we value integrity and

honesty sort of way, but integrity meaning there's a oneness that

I said what we were going to do and we did what I said

sort of integrity, right?

Absolutely. Now, something that you mentioned

about our work together regarding system and soul and those

three things, which I think are fantastic, and maybe we should rewrite the

visionary seat in your chart with just those three things.

But you talked

about the team piece. From my

experience as a founder and working with others,

talking to the customer, typically not the most difficult thing in the world.

They're usually on the front lines, they're there, they're personable, those sorts

of things. But I do think that that building a team

piece seems to be elusive in some cases.

And I'm curious, not that we have to go through your entire

resume. I mean, we'll link up your LinkedIn profile if somebody really wants to

go check that out. But you've worked with many

different teams over the course of your career in different sectors

and different purposes, large, small, all those sorts of things.

What was different in being a founder, trying to

build a team as opposed to sitting in one of those executive

positions that you've held and building a team? That's an

awesome question. That's why I get paid the medium

dollars. That's right. That's why you make dozens of dollars.

That's right.

That is a big difference, right? So I spent

more than a decade in executive positions, leading

teams, mostly on the sales and the marketing side.

And that was different. And I was telling a friend the other day,

now it's been a couple of years where I've been leading an

organization and we've been growing nicely.

I was telling somebody the other day, I said, boy, did my

understanding of what leadership is change,

right? Boy, has that changed.

I'm a big movie quote and movie reference guy,

and he goes, what do you mean? And I said,

I used to think leadership was Mel Gibson,

and

that's when I was in those executive roles, that's what it was.

It was that inspiration. We're going to do the thing, and we go do the

thing. And every year and

as a founder, CEO role, I've learned leadership is more about

it's time to make the donuts. If you remember that Dunkin

Donuts commercial from the 90s

where every morning at 04:00 a.m., he's just like, well, it's time to make the

donuts. Like every morning, rain,

snow. And it really is.

Let me say it another way when I started, I

thought the CEO was at the top of the organization.

And you may draw it that way.

It's not really the experience. It's really the foundation

upon which you build your team. You're the

foundation. And there is an element

of service needed.

It's not something you can choose, Tom. It's needed. You

serve your team to make sure they have what they need to

execute your vision every

minute of every day.

You are keeping a pulse on

who needs me. Where am I needed?

Where am I needed? How can I serve? And not from some

altruistic point of view. I'm talking very practically,

very practically, because sometimes they

need Mel Gibson and

with. Sometimes they need you to listen.

Sometimes they need to yell at you. Sometimes they need to vent

about a customer or a situation. Sometimes they

need somebody to help solve a problem.

You're the Swiss Army knife of service.

Why do you think that that's not something that comes

to mind or is understood easily, especially

for people who, like yourself, served in executive roles, even

all the way up to and including COO,

that's second in command about to be the CEO.

What is it? Second is different than first, though it

is. My pastor, who

moved from executive pastor to lead pastor, took over

after the founder, which is always like a really

tedious sort of move in any organization, including

churches. And the way that the says it is, when he

was sitting in that second seat, he thought that the distance

between their chairs was like

6ft. It could reach over or slide over and touch

it. He goes, I figured out it wasn't 6ft.

It were measured in feet. It was measured in miles.

I completely agree with that. I completely agree

with that. Why do you think that is? And

how did that reality hit you? Because

you didn't have to choose. And obviously we've seen, whether

on Instagram or LinkedIn or something else, a ton of founder

CEOs aren't choosing service as you've

described it. They're choosing a different method.

I'll tell on myself here. When I started this company, I'd spent a lot

of time in corporate, and it was hard, grueling work,

making other people rich, working other people's schedules,

seeing amazing ideas get killed in the boardroom and never

see in the light of day, right? And there was a lot of

frustration. And when Corne and

I started this and Corne had similar

right, I reached out to him and I'm just like, we just wanted to

do good work with good people. And let me tell you what my mindset was

at the time, where it's like, we just want to do good work with good

people. And I'll speak for myself only

with this. I think it's true for him, but I won't speak for him, speaking

of myself only. I'm like, you know what? This is going to be lovely. Be

able to have some freedom, set my own schedules,

build a nice business. It'll help with the financial

aspect. And I'll be working for

myself, right? So

no more bad bosses. All that type of stuff

is what got me through the door. And then the door

closes behind you and you realize there's no door handle, that

you can't open it up again, right? And then you're

like, oh, this

is harder than I thought it was. And I knew it'd be

hard. It was harder than that. And

there's a realignment. There's a realignment that takes place. And I know this is

true for other founders because we've talked about there's a realignment where you're like, oh,

this isn't quite what I thought. I'm liking it. It's just

different. It's just different. And

I had to give up those

false perceptions of what being the founder and leader

was going to be in exchange for something much

different. But outside of being a father,

it's the most enriching thing I've done. It's just nothing like

I imagined it's just nothing like I imagined

the responsibility, the

service that's required. It's not

glamorous. It is not glamorous.

It seemed from the outside, it seemed very

glamorous. It is the exact opposite of

glamorous. Exact opposite. It's very enriching.

Don't get me wrong. It's very enriching. I love what I do. I love the

clients that we help. I love seeing my team

grow and thrive and have successes. But you know what? I see them

grow and thrive and I get to celebrate them from the back of the room.

And again, that's not what I thought it was going to be coming in. I

like where it's at, but it's just much different. Just

much different. What do you think

could help people make that transition?

Because you had the realization and you can

go as basic as there's pleasure seeking, pain avoidant.

Right? And it sounds like you entered a place that was

a lot more painful than you previously had

thought. When I talk about it,

whether it was you or I or in a presentation or something else,

is a lot of entrepreneurs get into

business for themselves or start something because they see it as a path to

freedom. They end up feeling like they were

in a prison of their own making, which is

really frustrating, right? Because you have no one else to blame. You

can't blame it on a bad boss. You can't point at this, that, and the

other thing. It's like, it's your company, who else are you going to go to?

And you know what, though? That was true. And I'm going

to give you a compliment here.

That was true. And I did accept responsibility because

it was a prison of my own making. And I understood I needed

help. And that's when I reached out to you,

because I knew you had some skills to be able to

help me put things together

to get out of it. It's been six months. Right. And those of you that

know, whatever, the founder lifecycle, whatever, I'm about two and a half

years, I guess. Two. It's about two years

in, and so it changes. But

in six months, I do not feel like I am in prison anymore.

I did what because I

feel like I have some agency in decisions. I have some agency

in direction. I have agency in

how the team is shaped and formed.

Before, I was just being bombarded

with environmental things that were happening,

and I don't feel that way anymore. Now, there's still a lot of

work. Sure. But

the vehicle is responding to the direction

versus I was rolling down a hill uncontrollably,

whereas now it's just like, oh, got it. Okay,

I'm learning to drive the car now. Right.

There is some fun. Don't hear me say it's not fun. It's absolutely fun. Right.

We're going up against companies that are bigger than us and

winning. I just got a call just before I got on here,

and we just won a pretty big contract with

someone we've been working with trying to win for a while and was up

against three other companies significantly larger than us.

Wow. Fantastic.

Anyway, but yeah, the role of leadership

changed. Just the

view of it. But it's been very enriching

prison of my own making. Yes, but you can get out of your

own prison, too, because you made it. Yeah. Those

that Dave Ramsey and a lot of the entree leadership stuff, and I know everybody

has their different opinion. Set that set that aside

and chew up the meat. Spit out the bone. There's you another

good Southern ism, but I think it's Southern, it sounds

like

the negative thing about being a business owner is

you're the problem. But the good news is you're also the solution.

Right? Like, you built the prison, you can also unlock the

cell that's right. And get out. But that

can feel weighty at times because you're like, well, all

of my thinking got me here. How am I going to think

myself out of a problem I thought myself into? Which I think kind of

speaks to you having that moment of I've got to go outside the

boundaries of myself and maybe even the company because obviously you have

a co founder who has previous entrepreneurial experience,

and it took you all to a place like it wasn't. You all were

struggling and needed a lifeline, but it was almost like a runaway

rocket at the point you and I were talking.

Yeah. Without a rudder on it. There's

a degree of humility that's needed. There's a degree of arrogance and

confidence needed to start a business. Not in a bad way,

but like, wow, I'm so good at this, I'm going to start a business.

Right. But that doesn't apply

in every category of the business. Right.

Eventually that has to wear off. Right. And something else

replaces it or for. Me, having

an organized system or having the ways to run the meetings

and get the roadmap and get the metrics in place and make sure

that is not something that I excel at. Right. Some of

the stuff that's part of our work product I do excel at, which is why

I had the confidence to start the business. Like, wow, I'm really good

at this talent or skill, I should start a business.

But I remember the voice memo I sent

you was just before Christmas because we were off. And I sent you a voice

memo because you'd been communicating with me, let me know what you were

doing. And I was resistant, and I was just like,

all right, man, I'm drowning. I know you're

off for Christmas. Let's meet the first of the year. But I need help,

man. I'm like, I need help. And

I know some people find it hard to do

sometimes to be like, hey, I need some help in this area.

Yeah, definitely. I paddle in that boat. It's

sort of like a running joke with some people

that I'm around, and I'll tease about it, but

there's always a kernel of truth in it. It's like, you know, I

despise needing other people, but

truth be told, there's so much in my life that's good that wouldn't

be there if I was just trying to carry it all on

my own. And that's the opposite end of service, is being able to

be humble enough to accept the service of others.

Yeah. Which is a tough thing because it can be easy to hide behind. Let

me just serve you, serve you, do this, do this, do this. It's a nice

way to keep people at arm's length. That's right. Called

codependent. Or

just suffering in silence. Yeah.

Something I was going to ask, and at the risk of it

seeming self serving to the listener, but

I want to point out that

previously where you and I had intersected,

we were exposed tom something similar or

in the same category of business frameworks as system and

soul. And you had other

I could talk about that. You want me to talk about that? Well,

yes, but maybe here's my tee up and the you can take it

wherever you want, which will be fun, I'm sure.

But the thing I'm asking

is there is that I'm making things

happen, right. You had already been going a year and a half or so

by the time you reached out, around Christmas time,

but you had exposure. There are books.

There are things that you can go that will give you almost a step by

step on, here's how you implement X, Y, and Z

and you go about it. And here's the templates and here's the

stuff. You had that exposure, yet

chose not to try to do it all in

house. Or maybe you did. I know that

there's more stories linked there which are at your discretion to share,

but why not just get a book

off the shelf? It sure as hell is a lot less

expensive than hiring me $20 on a book to

go through versus hiring an outside person, whether it was me or

someone

I'm bracing. Ask some rhetoricals.

There's no question that America

has problems with obesity. Do you think that we have a

problem with obesity because there's a lack of information

about what makes you fat?

No. Do you think there's a problem with

teenage pregnancy because they don't have enough information

about what causes pregnancy?

Right. I think we're good on info

and educational materials. So it's not a

lack of information. It is

the implementation of said information

or the ability to actually get the outcome that you

or I'm going to quote. I'm a movie quote guy. Or there's that

scene in Liar, Liar with Jim Carrey when he can't

lie and his secretary goes, your client's on

the phone. He's in jail again. What

soul, I tell him. And he grabs the phone and he goes, quit

breaking the law, asshole.

Right? As one of my

employees used to say, it ain't rocket surgery. That's

right. So it's not just information.

It's not what you know, it's what you can get done. It's not what you

know, it's what you can get done. I couldn't get it done. You

could give me the blueprint. I couldn't get it done. Could I try

to get it done? Sure. How many times am I going to try to get

it done before I admit it's not getting done?

I need help to get it done because it is not getting done.

Right?

I'm going to tell you you love my dad's quotes,

so here's a good one. And hopefully this is rated

R so I can curse. My dad used to say, Wish

in one hand and shit in the other and see which gets filled first.

So I say that when

I reached out to you in December. And if people are trying to self implement,

dude, look yourself in the mirror and just ask,

am I actually going to get this done? And if I want to try to

self implement, how many months am I going to give myself

before I'm going to be able to look myself in the mirror and be honest

and say, it ain't working? It's

not working because you hire people for the

outcome. You hire people for the outcome. You're paying

for the years, not for the time, right? And then you measure

on outcomes. If you're getting the outcomes you want, what was that worth to

you? If you're not getting the outcomes you want because you did it yourself

or whatever, maybe you got a bad implementer. If you're not getting the outcomes you

want, stop doing that. Right? Quit breaking the law.

Right. Stop doing it's not working. It's not working.

Try something different. Yeah,

that's good.

I know it's a trap because I've fallen into. It myself

of I'm a smart guy, I'm making things work. I'm gaining and

I'm implementing and I'm getting stuff done, and it's just

popping. But eventually

your brain only has so much space and you only have so much

time. And as you mentioned, as the business grows,

you get bombarded. Like, you sort of work for everybody else,

your team, your clients, and where are you going to hold this space?

I know I've done better when I've had just athletically, when I've

had a coach, somebody outside.

There's a great book, it's on web design

or just like UIUX for web applications or something.

It's called? Don't make me think. Yes, I own it.

And the sequel to that book? And

that's been in different areas. So like, lately or

this year, I've taken up competing in triathlons and

that sort of training. But it

was made easier because I had a friend who had done it who said,

I'll coach you. I'll put together your training plan. I

didn't have to think about anything. I just had to go out and move my

body for the period of time and at the intensity. And now

I have an app that does that. But if

I'm paying, though, like this app for the outcome of

what it says it can make me do, because I probably

could sit down and figure it out. I've been doing sports long enough. Right, but

that could be anything for any founder or any business leader. Is

you probably could do you have the

time? Which, as we all know, is one of our

only on renewable resources. Is is

that a phrase I heard? I don't know who said it, but the

highest and best use of your time.

And those things become more and more narrow to the point of where they really

are. I think that's what that author was saying about those three things, right? Yeah.

Which is the things that only you as a founder can do

are far more narrow than you as

a VP, you as a director, you as a frontline worker

or a mid level manager. Right. Yeah.

And again, it boils down to

really being the observer of yourself and

being honest with yourself

about is it getting done? I'll

tell you something that's embarrassing about myself.

I have a virtual assistant that I meet with three times a

week in the morning because I have a really hard time logging my time

entries and checking on some of my tasks and some other

it's the easiest thing in the world, but it wasn't getting done.

It wasn't getting done. And so now I have a 15 minutes appointment on

Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays where I sit there

like I'm an infant and go through my homework

with Mommy and Daddy and make sure my lunch but you know what? It

gets done now. And it took

me two months before I was open to the idea

because I'm like it should be right? If you hear the word should coming

out of your mouth, if you're observing yourself, should. It should be should or

could or what? Right. Anyway, so I did

that. Every time I meet I'm a little embarrassed at the beginning because

I'm like, I should be able to do this. Right? I should

be able to do this. I am a smart grown man. I'm 43 years

old. I should be able to look at my calendar and

transfer it over into the program about the client work that I did.

But it wasn't getting done. And now

it is. Now it is, period. Right.

And that's really what we manage for when it comes back to the work

product or services, what is the outcome

and what needs to happen to get the outcome

that you need that you want? Yeah. So

in thinking through because obviously I start all these conversations sort of

abstractly and usually the thread emerges.

But I'd be curious. Your take,

given what you've said about outcomes, is

being that outcomes are what we pay for. That's what we're geared towards. That's what

we complain about when we write negative Google, Yelp, Amazon

reviews is we didn't get what we paid for,

but we think that way as a

buyer. But when we're a business leader or an

organizational leader, and maybe even more especially a

founder co founder, why do you

think people can't make that mental

leap to being outcome focused and say,

well, this isn't the path? I thought I would take

to get to this outcome or this isn't the way I

thought I would do things to achieve this outcome. Like you didn't think you

would need three meetings a week with a virtual

assistant to make sure you logged your time and did these things. Even though

you helped come up with the idea, you saw the value of it, you

said it was good, but even that took you two

months before you got there. What's stopping up

founders and leaders from doing that?

I have my own thoughts, but I'm curious on yours.

I'll share autobiographically just

because that's really the perspective that I have. I think the answer

is in the question, what is stopping me from

focusing on the outcomes? Right.

Ask yourself that. What is stopping me?

If you are able to ask yourself

that and not to start rushing into solutions, really marinate in

it, what is stopping me? What is stopping me from

focusing the outcomes? And as you're doing that, keep a check on

your inner space too, and just be like you might feel some resistance,

you'll feel some kind of emotion. Maybe it's I think it's different for everybody. You

know, sometimes for me, it's situational, you know, maybe it's like,

oh, there's there's some I'm feeling like I need to control

it. Is that true? Yeah. Do I need to?

Right. Is that true? No, I don't

am I open to letting it go? What would my life be like

if I did let that go? Right? But

really being objective about it and doing some self

inquiry around what is stopping me from focusing the

outcomes? That's one aspect, and then the other aspect that I

find with myself. And this has been this way, and you've known me for years,

so I know, you know this is true. Being able to

reinvent yourself often,

right? So we go through cycles of creating

something, maintaining something, and then

dismantling it or destroying it, and then recreating something,

maintaining something, and dismantling and destroying it. I

find, at least in my life, it's about every six months or so,

there's some aspect of me that

has served its purpose and now needs

to be dismantled, understood, and go away.

And then nature abhors a vacuum, right?

So now that there's space, now I have

room to grow into a new understanding or grow into

a new appreciation and grow into. And so if I'm

coming off of just looking at a two year founder journey, the

first year very different than the second year.

unrecognizably different. The people, the

processes, the way of thinking, even the product

itself, it was very different in that first year. And then we

went through this create, maintain,

destroy about a year ago.

And when we did, some of our team changed as

well, right? Because it's like, okay, we're reinventing.

We're becoming something new. And

going into the s two stuff. People change seats, seats

change organization. You're constantly reshuffling and

moving, and then you go, you go, you go. And when you find

yourself getting stuck again, like, shit, stuff's not working, or

Why is this so difficult now? It didn't used to be difficult.

What's going on? What about this? Do I need to look at

something? Do I need to release something? Do I need to let something go?

And then you have to actively participate in taking that

down. You have to be like, oh, I'm still thinking in the

way that I was two years ago when I was

in a different role or in a different company or in a different situation. Okay?

That's not serving me anymore, you see? So that's my take on

it. Yeah, it really is. You need to think

differently in order to lead differently, because the demands of your

current situation are different than they were previously, even

if you're in the same seat. But you got to want to lead differently

before you can even start the process. Because if you think you got it all

figured out, then you're right.

I completely agree with what you said, and I think

you've hit on several good things. I think one of the things, at

least, again, autobiographical, I think one of the things for me,

and I think probably was an arrogance,

but I choose the word

precious. I was being precious

about the way I thought my business.

My first one was supposed to be run. I was precious about

how I thought leadership was supposed to look like. I was

precious about what the harmony and balance of

work to family to outside enjoyment

and all of those things. And

most, if not all, of my real problems

that persisted, I'm not going to say because you're always going to have

problems or as we call them in s two opportunities.

Opportunities, yeah. But the ones that

persisted that might show up on that weekly sync

opportunities list repeatedly, which they're not supposed to. That's right.

Those were all ones where I was being precious about the process instead

of being focused on the outcome and say, okay, this

isn't working. What was the

insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different

result is I was insane and I drove my team insane.

And it's when I detached from what's the journey there

and like you said, is what are my expectations?

What am I holding on to that's no longer

helping me? And that's the tricky part. Right. It may

have previously helped you, which I think.

It blows your mind because it's the thing that you needed. And

so you hold it precious, but it's

not serving you anymore. Right. I had a friend use this example, and she

said, if you are driving a car from New

York to California and it was a hard, long road

trip, but you made it. Now you're on that beach

and you're very proud of the journey and the car that you drove

in and all the things. But you can't go any further with the

car now. You need scuba gear and a boat.

You got to leave the car. James Bond. Unless you're James Bond, you

got to leave the car. There's nothing to

do, you see? Yeah.

So I think probably one of the biggest things that I've heard

you say throughout the whole conversation, I think you could boil

down is self awareness.

And being the observer of self is the key to that. Yeah.

And I would have heard some other teachers. You and I

have had our discussions about enneagram, and some of the stuff that I'm interested there

is a phrase that I liked that came from an enneagram teacher I was

listening to was non judgmental self

observation. Perfect is just

what's the reality establish reality. You don't have to judge.

There doesn't need to be guilt and shame. You don't need gold stars, but you

also don't need black and gray dots on yourself

to like, oh, this is a mistake. This is a mistake. It's just

what is happening right now? What am I holding on to?

What am I holding precious or what do I believe? Work

before and I'm trying to make it work again, but

everything's really different. If I were to pause

for even. A moment and consider that, does it

serve me? Who would I be without it? And a lot of these questions just

so I can cite the source. There's a book, Byron Katie

Loving what is so some of these questions, just tom properly cite

the source. But is this true? Do I

need without it? Yeah, we'll

make sure she gives you a royalty,

I guess. My final question, which I ask on every episode

and to make good on the promise we talked about at the top

of the show, is what are people going to do differently?

So if you're sitting down, one of these listeners, they're a leader,

maybe they're experienced, maybe they're not, but they hear this. Okay, I need

tom have self observation, not judgmentally. Is it serving

me? Evaluate that can feel like,

whoa, I've never stepped into that. I don't meditate, man. I'm not into

that. But what is a first step in the

next 24 hours? Someone could take a step. They don't have to master it

all at once, but just take a step. What

advice would you give or what direction would you give?

I do think it boils down to being the observer of self,

right? If you're not in love with everything about

your experience right now as a human being, just

start observing yourself. You don't need to journal it if you don't want

to. I find it's helpful. But just be

curious. To quote Ted Lasso, right?

Be curious about yourself.

Just be your observer. Just question,

is it true? Is it true? Right?

Because you'll start to see things. You'll start to see

more things. And when you walk into a

dark room and you turn on the light, you see more

things. And that's really

what just being observant. You'll

have questions and that's good because that's really

what's going to help you kind of uncover what you need to uncover,

right? You're not trying to become somebody else. You're just trying to become authentically.

You who you really are. Be

curious about yourself and that's how you're going to be

able to see what you need to see so you can grow where you need

to go. Boom mic drop.

Except I'm not going to drop it because those things are expensive.

Tom, this has been fantastic. I'm sure there's like 37 more

observation that we could or should have. But if

people want to get a hold of you or learn

more about what you're doing or interested in or unlimited, where would

you send them? Sure, they go to our website,

unlimitedtechsolutions.com. Check, check out

what we're doing. And there will be a link in the

notes in every description or whatever the right term is there

for Tom's LinkedIn profile. So he's a

great follow. And then you start following the things he's following so

you can start to pick up on some of the sources he's citing today. But

I appreciate you coming by. This was a great conversation. Think you and

remember, until next time, if you want to lead differently,

think differently. We'll see you.