How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

HLT Jennifer Cresswell Full Interview
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[00:00:00] Jennifer Cresswell: if you make a decision and it's wrong, okay. And they're like, but I'm like, so make another decision and make another pivot. At least pick a path. If you pick a path and you have clarity on what you want to accomplish, then when that unanticipated roadblock gets thrown in your way, you will pivot and you will pick another path.

[00:00:18] It's again, being that proactive saying, I'm making a decision versus this happened. So, Okay, I will go this way, but then I got hit with this and you're not picking anything. So you lose that confidence that you can make the right decision because you've never made a choice.

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[00:00:38] Kenny Lange: Welcome to the How Leaders Think podcast, a show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I'm your host Kenny Lang, and with me today is the Jennifer Cresswell.

[00:00:49] Ha. She is the founder and principal of. Thought grow where she helps business owners solve problems faster during times of uncertainty to [00:01:00] create lasting legacies.

[00:01:02] I mean, we could just full stop there. That's awesome. That's sold, and I think 10 people just booked a call with you focusing on strengthening what she calls a business's four foundational pillars structure. Team process culture. Jennifer combines her love of problem solving with a broad skillset and diverse experience across leadership, operations, business strategy, and communications.

[00:01:23] Like she's just a stone cold killer. What if there's a problem, yo, she'll solve it. Whether making a business attractive for acquisition or creating stability to support a growth-focused future, Jennifer truly enjoys working with business owners to define and realize their ultimate visions.

[00:01:39] Welcome to the show, Jennifer.

[00:01:41] Jennifer Cresswell: Thanks so much Kenny, and thank you for that arousing introduction. Um, I really do enjoy what I do and I appreciate the the emphasis you gave to.

[00:01:51] Kenny Lange: Absolutely. I, Eva, and maybe you ought to think about sneaking the vanilla ice piece into the bio for future interviews. So I think it adds a [00:02:00] little flavor. Me, Jennifer, what is on your mind?

[00:02:03] Jennifer Cresswell: well. I have yet to have a conversation with anyone personally or professionally where they're not a little or worried about what the future's gonna bring.

[00:02:17] Kenny Lange: Okay.

[00:02:18] Jennifer Cresswell: Yeah it's one of the biggest challenges that I've heard from business owners recently is leading through this uncertainty. I mean, how can they focus on building a legacy if they have no idea what's going to happen to tomorrow, much less 10 years from now?

[00:02:36] Kenny Lange: Yeah that excellent point. And obviously we've had more uncertainty over the last five years than maybe at any I'll say any other time. I don't know. I've only been alive for a few decades. I don't know what it was like in the 18 hundreds, but. What comes to mind is if we're talking to just stick with entrepreneurs there is, I mean, [00:03:00] baked into the word entrepreneur is a part of it.

[00:03:03] The first, the, I think it's entrepreneur. I think it's a French word, meaning to assume risk so isn't, there isn't. The uncertainty baked in to being an entrepreneur and being a leader, or are you sensing a new kind of uncertainty or lack of clarity?

[00:03:19] Jennifer Cresswell: I think there is that sense of uncertainty when you're a leader that you're not gonna have all the answers. That's an uncomfortable feeling for a lot of leaders. And that's normal. But I think it's how you deal with that uncertainty that a lot of business owners and especially small business owners who might have been really good at something and then they started a company because they were good at something how did they deal with that uncertainty?

[00:03:45] I find that they fall into two camps. So when people are feeling that uncomfortableness especially if they're leaders, they might, jump in and start taking more control. They start doing the work alongside their [00:04:00] employees thinking that, Hey, I'm showing I'm a team player.

[00:04:03] We're all in this together. And what happens? They get stuck in the day to day. No one's looking at the big picture, and the team starts to feel like they're just hamsters running on a wheel day after day.

[00:04:16] Kenny Lange: I would also imagine that the team also feels a little like trampled on or maybe that they're not trusted because the owner, CEO, whoever the most senior executive I. Is like swooping in to do things which can be really disheartening. And I say that as as someone who's committed that faux pa or that I was gonna say crime, but it that makes me sound like I'm the joker.

[00:04:40] I saw like, it really took the window of the sails of my team whenever I would do that. I would say or think that it's fairly common that when any of us feel, I. A lack of clarity or certainty that we try to scramble and grab for control, like that's a natural [00:05:00] response.

[00:05:00] Do you think people are on autopilot in doing that, or do you think that there's a, a, a prevailing wisdom that says, Hey, if you don't know what to do, just get busy doing everything.

[00:05:10] Jennifer Cresswell: I think in a way it's the latter. I don't think it's necessarily autopilot now, maybe it is for some people, but I think a lot of people are like as long as I'm doing something I. The business will move forward and they feel that by taking an active role, then they're doing what they need to do.

[00:05:31] But then there's this other camp of people, right? So we talked the one camp, they're asserting controlled or just doing, and they're, stuck in the day to day. The other side of the coin is the people who are like, we're not gonna make any decisions. We're not gonna make any changes. And they say whether it's, the next 90 days or until a certain specified event, which is never defined because they have no idea what that event is.

[00:05:55] Kenny Lange: Until we know more like what is more.

[00:05:59] Jennifer Cresswell: you are [00:06:00] exactly right, and, unfortunately for them, they think they're providing comfort. Nothing's gonna change for the team and the team's going, okay. But things are changing and we're not doing anything differently. Indecision is a decision. It's just you're giving control to someone else to make that decision for you.

[00:06:21] Kenny Lange: I love that not making decision is a decision. It's and I'm certain that you and I, or maybe I'm less than certain that you and I have talked about this just with our love of culture and helping shape that in organizations. But you're gonna have a culture. It's just whether or not you let it happen by default or whether you intentionally designed it.

[00:06:44] So not making a dec in the same way, not making a decision is a decision. Also want to go back to, there's something I say quite a lot and I have seen a lot and also been guilty of this a lot. I'm gonna stop saying a lot in just a second. That, that's gonna be the title of the episode. But [00:07:00] mis mistaking activity for progress,

[00:07:02] Jennifer Cresswell: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:03] Kenny Lange: Or busyness for productivity.

[00:07:05] Is that fairly common in the leaders that, that you're encountering? I think it makes us feel good but it's it's fool's gold, right?

[00:07:15] Jennifer Cresswell: It is, yes, I.

[00:07:18] Kenny Lange: I'm not calling anybody a fool, but

[00:07:20] Jennifer Cresswell: no. But you're, they're like, I'm really busy. The other thing it does is it causes overwhelm, right? So if you are really busy and you're doing all these things, but there's no direction, there's no focus. Like I'm really busy, but the business isn't moving forward and.

[00:07:38] You're doing all these little things. You're like, I gotta keep all these balls in the air. And the question that my next question is, do you personally, you have to keep all the balls in the air. And so that's where, they go do I? You mentioned it in the beginning, I'm a problem solver.

[00:07:53] That's what I like to do. And leaders need to think big picture. They need to be focused on the big [00:08:00] picture. They need to plan strategically and make decisions that will move the business forward, right? So think of it this way, if you're treading water, you're using a ton of energy, but you're not swimming, right?

[00:08:12] You're using all this energy, but you're not going anywhere and.

[00:08:16] Kenny Lange: Yeah. Ah, man I love that. And I'm also having flashbacks to my lifeguard certification and how much I hated the treading water piece. One thing that just hit me that I've not heard you say is that uncertainty is a bad thing. I've just heard you say it exists, but I've not heard you say it's bad, it's evil, it's detrimental or any of those things.

[00:08:40] Jennifer Cresswell: a lot of the best things come out of uncertainty. If we can approach it as making a decision, making a choice, saying This is the path that I'm going to take. There's a lot that can be learned from that. And it's not, it's not an all in, it's not [00:09:00] a.

[00:09:01] You have to like all the chips, we're just going to throw out everything we've done and take a completely new direction. No, that, to me, that's not necessarily a smart way to deal with uncertainty. But uncertainty makes you think it keeps you on your toes. As a business owner and even as a leader, you shouldn't get comfortable in the status quo because we all know things are going to change.

[00:09:23] It's how you deal with that uncertainty and solve those problems, or even recognize those problems, that's what's going to get you through and help you move your business forward, because ultimately that's what you need to do. Think of it as throwing a ball, right?

[00:09:41] If you are, moving backwards or to the side to avoid an obstacle and throwing a ball, is it gonna go further in that situation or will it go further if you're moving forward through a path that you've chosen?

[00:09:57] Kenny Lange: Yeah. If you're on your back heels and you're attempting to [00:10:00] do it just mechanically you can't throw a ball as far or for me playing soccer. Like you, if you're falling backwards and kicking the ball, like it's probably gonna fly up. It's not gonna be struck very hard.

[00:10:11] You're not gonna come, you're, you may not get it to a teammate, whatev, whatever it is. Something else within that. So I love that uncertainty's not a bad thing. It's, it is a maybe attention to be managed, but it makes me think of a couple things. One Simon Sinek's book, the Infinite Game, like the goal of the business is to keep the business going. It's not some final destination. But it's just to keep going. So that means that there's like an endless supply of uncertainty and problems and things to be solved, like no matter we solved this. When we do this well. Now we got a new thing that we gotta figure out, like we're getting all this demand and we're selling more.

[00:10:50] Now you gotta figure out how to fulfill it, and then you're fulfilling it really well. How do we do it more efficiently? Now we're doing it efficiently, but now we're delivering [00:11:00] so fast that our people are bored. Now we need more sales. There's just always this next thing to, to be solved.

[00:11:06] The other thing, and I heard this recently I listen and read a lot of a Alex or Moses's, know content. But he said something that was a great simple breakdown. So he said anxiety is having so many options but no priorities. That's where anxiety comes from. And he, 'cause he said, the opposite is like sadness is feeling like you have no option, no perceived options, right?

[00:11:31] And so that's where hopelessness comes in. But what you're describing is there's all these options, there's all these fires, there's all these problems, there's all these goals, there's shiny objects, there's changes, there's ai, there's this, there's that. What do we do? And then if you don't have the priorities.

[00:11:46] Like you were saying, then that uncertainty about which is the right thing, it leads to that overwhelm, which at best just, causes a lot of heartburn. At worst has, can actually lead to the, [00:12:00] sadly, a very high suicide rate amongst entrepreneurs, right? Because there's that pressure to succeed and success being defined for them instead of somewhere internally. So how do you if this is a given, if this is a state of the world and of business how are you helping leaders maybe find those priorities, find that clarity, or at least find some peace in the storm? Because it sounds a lot like the, the fight, flight, or freeze. Sort of thing is coming through and I'm not sure the freezing, like you said, do nothing flight.

[00:12:35] Like we're just gonna run away and do something. It sounds more like you're helping people figure out like what they're fighting for.

[00:12:40] Jennifer Cresswell: So I bucket problems and you can call them problems, challenges, roadblocks, use whatever vernacular you're comfortable with and doesn't scare you away. I call them problems.

[00:12:51] I put them in four buckets for your business. So business which includes financial people, which are your people, not clients, [00:13:00] process.

[00:13:00] And communication, which a lot of leaders mistake sometimes for business problems when it's really a lack of clarity or a lack of clear communication. So I take the problems, bucket 'em into those four categories, then you tag them each and mark them either urgent or important. You cannot choose both.

[00:13:25] Kenny Lange: Okay. I would be one of the people, but I imagine there's others that are like, Hey I've seen the Eisenhower Matrix or I read Stephen Covey and God help me. I love a good two by two matrix. Aren't we supposed to be tackling the things that are urgent and important that you're telling me I have to pick one or the other?

[00:13:43] So can you break down how that choice is made and maybe why we don't have the two intersecting?

[00:13:50] Jennifer Cresswell: And I define them differently. And there's a lot of schools of thought where you're looking at what's urgent, what's important, and I look at urgent as time sensitive, [00:14:00] something you could delegate to someone. Make sure it gets done in the time that it needs to get done. But you as a leader don't need to focus on it.

[00:14:10] Versus important is vital to moving your business forward and it's something a leader should be focusing on and may be the only person or people who can be focusing on it.

[00:14:24] Kenny Lange: Gotcha.

[00:14:25] Jennifer Cresswell: give you a couple examples if that's helpful.

[00:14:27] Kenny Lange: Absolutely.

[00:14:29] Jennifer Cresswell: So thi think of it as payroll needs to be processed, right? Your people need to get paid.

[00:14:34] That's urgent.

[00:14:35] But a leader doesn't have to do that. You can have an outsourced resource, whoever someone else, the company needs to have the money to make payroll. That's something that a leader needs to be focused on, right? So that's one financial example.

[00:14:52] And another one is, think about the services or products.

[00:14:55] You and I have both worked at agencies, led agencies. You need to make sure you're [00:15:00] delivering those services and products to your clients on time and on budget, right? That's not necessarily something the leader needs to focus on, but the leader should be focused on something that, so that's urgent, right?

[00:15:12] It needs to be done on time, on budget. It's all, it's important that the services and products. Are priced appropriately and positioned to your target audience so that they buy, so that you have people buying. That's important. That's where the leader should be focusing their time. Now, it's not a perfect system, but what it does when you start to do this is you start to pri help you prioritize.

[00:15:39] Focus on what you as the leader should be working on versus what you can be delegating so that more gets done and everybody's moving together, but they're focused on the right things.

[00:15:52] Kenny Lange: I like that. It sounds like the leaders focused a lot on the, for the important things. Those are like setting direction [00:16:00] and then the urgency is making sure we arrive at whatever that destination was on time. Maybe also on budget. You don't wanna overspend too many snacks at Bucky's. And you'll go broke.

[00:16:11] I like that. I was actually recently I think I mentioned before, we started recording, going through a new certification and they brought up the two by two matrix and the urgent and important, and the trainer facilitator said something really interesting. He goes, if something is urgent and important, he goes, usually everybody agrees on that.

[00:16:30] If it's not urgent, not important. Then we're like. That's stupid. Let's eliminate that. He goes, the biggest point of contention and confusion that he's seen is left with important, not urgent or urgent, not important, and which makes me think of like how you're splitting it. And we get confused on which buckets those get go into sometimes.

[00:16:52] Like you're talking about is creating more clear definitions. Then what group of people need to be cackling those [00:17:00] buckets? So that's an extra layer. So I may be I'm gonna steal that and be like, trademark Jennifer Creswell. They're like, did you just verbally say a trademark? I was like, yeah, just roll with it.

[00:17:11] But I really, I really like that. 'cause I think, I wanna go I wanna go back to something you mentioned is that a lot of entrepreneurs and leaders they got started, got their position because they were good at doing a thing. They had some sort of a technical skill and by technical I don't mean like you're a, an engineer or working with mechanical or electronic, but just like you could do the thing, whatever it was as you move up, it's less about doing the thing. And more about the business side of it, which some people get a rude awakening. They're like, man, there's all this extra stuff. I just wanted to build websites or sell this one thing or provide this type of service or make, corn cob pipes. I don't know. My, my examples aren't nearly as [00:18:00] good as yours.

[00:18:00] But now it's now I gotta I gotta set up all this legal stuff. I got QuickBooks. God help me. I need to send invoices and there's this processing fee. There's all these things, and I, oh, I have to decide the price. I was just I know how to make 'em really well, and I think I know what they.

[00:18:16] Cost. And I think it's just a rude surprise for so many people. So how do you talk to leaders and help them? That they have to make that transition from the person doing it to the person who's setting the vision and the goals for. What's happening because I found that's a tough transition for a lot of people and not all of them want to make it.

[00:18:36] And my opinion is they shouldn't have to like, be realistic. What do you really want to get yourself into?

[00:18:44] Jennifer Cresswell: It comes down to what is their goal for their legacy, right? So if you're thinking about. An entrepreneur and if you, they just, they're, I've met plenty of folks, wonderful folks who are like, I just want a business that's going to [00:19:00] provide me X amount of capital, so that I can do things that I wanna do.

[00:19:04] I'm not interested in growing, scaling, what, whatever that is. Now I would argue that you always need to be growing, because if you're not, you can't stand still. You're either moving backwards or forwards, but that's a story for another day.

[00:19:16] Kenny Lange: Grow or die,

[00:19:16] Jennifer Cresswell: I mean, pretty much from that standpoint. But, they, if you're looking to really build something and then move into the scaling, like those are different things like we, you talked about earlier your certification that you're working on, understanding what you do well, and then who you need on your team to get you where you wanna go.

[00:19:36] And they don't all have to be. Full-time employees. You don't have to be really good at building websites and hire an entire C-suite. That's, first of all, you can't afford it. Second of all, they're gonna be really bored because that's not something they're all gonna wanna do. But there's plenty of, and it's getting, it's starting to get that, oh, they're talking about fractional again, but think of them as trusted advisors, right?

[00:19:59] That [00:20:00] have a specific skill that you either don't have or you want to get better at. These could be coaches, they can be mentors, they can be fractional folks. But using them to lay out what you want your company to be and defining that structure. What are the resources that you need?

[00:20:17] You don't have to define who they are, just what are they and how much of them do you think you need? If you are a business that's, I don't know, just starting up, you may not need a CFO. You need someone who knows what the heck they're doing from a financial standpoint, if that's not your area of expertise, but you don't need a CFO or someone who's worked at the big four that, that's not necessarily, that's not a need, right?

[00:20:41] Same goes for operations. You don't want someone who's been, the COO of a billion dollar company, when your goal is to get to a million dollars, it's different. It's a different skillset. So first is trying to figure out what you need and then looking at the people and how can they help you.

[00:20:59] Kenny Lange: Yeah [00:21:00] I was literally in the last week talking to a client about that, the sort of like fractional help. Like I don't know that you need a full-time, , the position we're talking about. I was like, but I was like, there's some very good fractional people that I think could give you some wisdom.

[00:21:14] Through the season that you're in, and you don't have to, you're not proposing marriage. So it's not, you're not making a forever commitment but I think that they could help you navigate through the season you're in to get to the goals that you want to get to. something you were talking about just the aligning piece of who you don't need a billion dollar COO if you're just starting out. I talk with my clients a lot about that. We talk about healthy fit and healthy being core values, but then fit being fuel impact and timeliness. Like they have to enjoy it and be good at it. They need to be able to make a significant positive impact. But that timeliness part, I think is a piece, I'm glad you brought it up, that so often people misunderstand like they are hiring CFO level when really what they need is a bookkeeper. Or I tell people it's like a Fortune [00:22:00] 500 company doesn't need to hire a newly minted CPA like maybe that person will be ready one day. But they need time, experience, probably some additional credentials or something like that. And so finding that alignment there is a right fit out there. But it doesn't mean you need to jump, especially if you're on your way up and you're smaller and you're sub, one to 3 million.

[00:22:21] You don't need to jump to the top of the professional services. Like you could get somebody really good that can help you navigate even if it is just that advisor. Which I find helps so often, which, I think you and I have talked about this in previous calls, is sometimes our clients.

[00:22:39] They maybe just need a validation that they're not crazy, um, that they're doing the right thing or just a different perspective or a space to process what they're thinking. And a lot of what you suggested, I think can provide that space for entrepreneurs, for leaders who often are not giving themselves space.

[00:22:58] To think, to [00:23:00] slow down and process because they're so busy throwing themselves into activity like you were mentioning.

[00:23:06] Jennifer Cresswell: I agree with you. I also think that they need to give themselves. Space and I call it grace to fail and to experience failure there. There's a great book out there. 'cause leaders are often afraid to fail, but there's a great book by Amy Edmondson. I don't know if you've read it. It's called Right Kind of Wrong, the Science of Failing.

[00:23:25] Well, um, If you haven't read it, I recommend it.

[00:23:29] I have her psychological safety book 'cause that's a huge thing of mine, but I haven't read that one from her, so I'll need to go pick that up. We'll link it in the show notes.

[00:23:37] It's a great book, but she divides failure into three main categories, basic, complex, and intelligent. And if you can make sure you are having more intelligent failures, especially as an entrepreneur and a leader. That's gonna be really positive. And so intelligent failures, she defines 'em as failures that take place in a new [00:24:00] territory.

[00:24:00] Jennifer Cresswell: Think of, you're going into a new market, right?

[00:24:02] Kenny Lange: Like an experiment.

[00:24:03] Jennifer Cresswell: Yeah, exactly. Scientists do this all the time and it's actually very beneficial to them. But you need to be going into new territory. What you're doing is gonna provide a credible opportunity for your business to do better, whether it's, new market, new product, et cetera.

[00:24:18] It's based on research. You shouldn't just blindly go into something, but it's oh, this market is underserved or There's not a lot of competition for this type of service, whatever that might be. And then you also fail only as big as you need to gain valuable insight. So you don't, and I think I meant, I might have even mentioned this earlier, you don't take, throw out your entire business model and go, we're going full board on this new thing.

[00:24:45] You keep doing what you're doing and take, I don't know, 10, 20, whatever you think you

[00:24:49] Is reasonable. That percentage of your business goes after this new opportunity because if you fail, it won't bring down your company.

[00:24:57] Kenny Lange: I've heard that referred to as like a commit [00:25:00] non-fatal failures. Again, this is probably another hermo and he probably got it from somebody else, but it was like a 70 20 10 rule. Like 70% of your business, like you're saying, like keeping the core of doing what you're doing, like what it, what's working just do more of it.

[00:25:15] 20% could be like some variation thereof a small experiment, but 10% could be a moonshot, like something like that intelligent piece. I'm really interested in this. It's not necessarily adjacent, but we want to go and test this and learn something like the point is to learn. And then, but so 10% risking 10% of your business isn't going, it shouldn't put you out of business and on the street and fire everybody.

[00:25:42] It should just give you more intelligence to say, oh, stay away from that. I'm glad we only invested, a few thousand dollars there versus. Okay. We all need to, everybody you're all salespeople now. Let's get out and beat the bushes. Let's find the money.

[00:25:57] Jennifer Cresswell: And I think times of uncertainty or [00:26:00] heightened uncertainty are great times to take those risks and people go well, wait no, no, no, no. I'm not, I'm not. I can't do that. I can, but you should because it's uncertain. You might actually get more feedback. You might find something that really works well

[00:26:15] That you would've never, you would've never, oh it's too risky.

[00:26:19] Is it really though, if it's only 10, 10%,

[00:26:22] Times of uncertainty is when we might make huge breakthroughs, and in my opinion. Times are just gonna keep changing more and more quickly. AI is gonna be a game changer for all businesses, small to large, and so trying new things doing that logical and thought through experimentation and hypothesis about what might be next for your business that's healthy and it's a great time to do that.

[00:26:49] Kenny Lange: Gotcha. And which I think might be counterintuitive to a lot of people is like, when it's uncertain, like no, that's when you play it safe. Go, going back to what you were saying at the beginning, it's like we're waiting [00:27:00] until, we know more. No, more what? Just more, and I was like, good luck with that.

[00:27:07] Um, But it sounds like when it's uncertain, like that's don't retreat. It's actually time. Go on the offensive. And actually I think that there's a lot I. I think you're saying this, so correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a lot of clarity and maybe not certainty, but I'd like for you to maybe draw a distinction between certainty and confidence in just a second.

[00:27:29] But you get clarity and maybe some confidence, maybe some certainty because you advanced, because you did something in the face of uncertainty and then you learned like that int intelligence. So maybe it worked, maybe it didn't, but you know more than you did before and maybe you're a little less uncertain. But I am curious 'cause I've had this debate and conversation with some other leaders about certainty versus confidence. I find people who walk around with a high degree of certainty [00:28:00] to oftentimes be the most obnoxious humans. And if you're familiar with the Dunning Kruger effect, like I find people that are so certain they're on the peak amount stupid right at the front end of that curve.

[00:28:13] But how do you think about or teach confidence versus certainty in, in that realm?

[00:28:18] Jennifer Cresswell: So a good friend of mine calls those folks who have that certainty and nothing's gonna change them. The flat earthers.

[00:28:29] Kenny Lange: That's good. I'm looking forward to some emails and comments. Let's bring it on.

[00:28:33] Jennifer Cresswell: Because they're not gonna change. It doesn't matter what information comes, that is their belief and they are so certain that it doesn't matter what other information they get, their certainty will never change. And I think, when you're looking at a path. And I look at myself my, especially through my career, my path has never been certain and I've ki and I now where I am, I'm kind of like, I'm glad [00:29:00] it wasn't because I got to explore.

[00:29:02] I had different things that, took me different paths that, if you would've asked me 20 years ago, what are you going to do? I would not be saying that I'd be sitting here doing

[00:29:11] Kenny Lange: Same.

[00:29:12] Jennifer Cresswell: So, Exactly. But, But are you glad that you're doing what you're doing now?

[00:29:16] Kenny Lange: Hell yes.

[00:29:17] Jennifer Cresswell: Exactly, but that was, that's a culmination of different things that made you pivot or try something else or make a decision that you didn't realize you were going to have to make and I think embracing that and being going, okay, if I make a decision, and most of the clients that I work with are not in the medical field, so no one is going to die.

[00:29:38] If they make the wrong decision, if you make a decision and it's wrong, okay. And they're like, but I'm like, okay, so make another decision and make another pivot. At least pick a path. If you pick a path and you have clarity on what you want to accomplish, then when that unanticipated roadblock gets thrown in your way, you will pivot and you will pick [00:30:00] another path.

[00:30:01] And so it's being, it's again, being that proactive saying, I'm making a decision versus just the. This happened. Okay, I will go this way, but then I got hit with this and you're not picking anything. So you feel, you lose that confidence that you can make the right decision because you've never made a choice.

[00:30:19] Kenny Lange: You lose that sense of agency.

[00:30:21] Jennifer Cresswell: Exactly.

[00:30:22] Kenny Lange: I Juan, it sounds like you're saying we should hold a lot of these decisions while we could be confident in stepping forward, but we could hold it with a, an open hand.

[00:30:31] To where oh, like this is the best decision I think I can make given the information and the time and all the constraints.

[00:30:39] And if I step forward and it's not the right thing, I reserve the right to change my mind, to change direction, to do all those things that, which sounds a little like. Giving yourself some grace. I think of it as when you're driving, right? Like you're moving forward and you're multi-lane. And I'm sure all of us have done this.

[00:30:54] Lord knows I have I'm trying to like weave my way through and going through Dallas traffic or something like that and I'm running [00:31:00] late. But I'll, I was like, oh, this lane is gonna be the right one. I get out and then I look up and there's a big flashing arrow that says to get back in the lanes.

[00:31:08] I just came out of. I made that lane. Guess what? I get to go back in. I get to turn on my blinker. Swallow my pride. Have everybody probably think I'm an idiot, or at least that's what I think they're thinking is ha you thought you were gonna get around us. And you just come right back in.

[00:31:22] But guess what? I'm still moving forward. I'm still moving towards my destination.

[00:31:27] Jennifer Cresswell: Absolutely. You need to make the best decision that you can with the information you have at the time. And when that information changes, you make another decision based on the best information that you have at the time. And we've said before, change is constant. So your path will have to change, but don't you want to feel in control?

[00:31:48] You don't have to. And confidence doesn't a lot of people mistake confidence for, like you said, the people who are like, I'm the best and I'm just gonna do whatever without, information.

[00:31:58] Kenny Lange: Like bravado

[00:31:59] Jennifer Cresswell: [00:32:00] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's a great way to describe it and I don't look at confidence that way.

[00:32:04] There's that quiet confidence that I believe leaders have and they are inspiring and empowering their people. I. By giving them a strategic direction, being transparent, and there's a way to be transparent where you're not giving an inappropriate information away. You as a leader can be afraid that this isn't the right decision or that there is some risk that you're taking here, but your team should feel that it's a healthy decision.

[00:32:31] They don't have to feel like it's the perfect decision, but that you put thought research, there's a reason you've made this decision and there's a, and that will give them more likely likelihood to follow you.

[00:32:42] Kenny Lange: Yeah, you could say I don't know exactly what the results are gonna be. This is the I have my little poker chip business cards that I hand out and I talk about making bets and bets come with a degree of uncertainty. You have to acknowledge it. That there is uncertainty. I usually put a, in a lot of my slide [00:33:00] decks I'll put, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.

[00:33:03] Mike Tyson philosopher. Um, And really, I mean, that's we're all as whether you're an entrepreneur or you're a leader and you're just a, part of leadership, you didn't start the company. But taking on those roles a lot of times feels like signing up to get punched in the face quite often.

[00:33:20] Like you make a lot of plans and then you get punched in the face. And I think a lot of what I feel like I hear you saying, and this maybe there's some transference. 'cause I've been thinking about this talk actually because of an introduction you made for me recently was the whole concept of be the buffalo right.

[00:33:36] The way out is through.

[00:33:38] So we're not running for the hills. We're not just standing there and taking it, but we're gonna turn and we're gonna face the storm of uncertainty and we're gonna go headlong through it. And we might actually be surprised that we don't sit in uncertainty quite as long as we thought because we charged headlong into it.

[00:33:57] Jennifer Cresswell: I love and I love the be the Buffalo analogy. I think that's [00:34:00] one that all entrepreneurs and leaders should embrace. Because you need, again, for businesses to succeed, for you to build a legacy with your business, you always have to be moving forward. It doesn't mean that you're not gonna hit roadblocks, you're not gonna run into problems.

[00:34:17] You know it, it's all in how you deal with that, your mindset, your resilience, and your focus. So if you can prioritize and focus, it's gonna help you move through that uncertainty and help you be that buffalo.

[00:34:31] Kenny Lange: Absolutely. I'm gonna start grazing on some grass and a pasture swatting flies. But Jennifer if somebody's listening to us, they're like, you know what? I have, I've just I've been, I. In a state of indecision, which is a decision or there's just so many options in front of me and I'm not certain which is the right one, and maybe I'm even lacking in confidence.

[00:34:53] What's the first step that, that leader can take in the next 24 hours? Spending little to no money to [00:35:00] make some progress towards, an intelligent failure or at least gaining more confidence and clarity like you described.

[00:35:09] Jennifer Cresswell: So take 15 minutes. Write down your 10 most pressing problems, challenges, roadblocks, whatever you want to call them.

[00:35:19] Kenny Lange: Okay.

[00:35:19] Jennifer Cresswell: Bucket them into business or, and financial people, process and communication.

[00:35:25] And then, and you don't have to have something in each of those categories. You may, one of them may be really on your mind, so that's fine.

[00:35:34] And then attach the word either urgent. Meaning time sensitive or important, meaning vital to the business to continue to move on. And that is going to help you. It's a first step you can take in starting to prioritize what you as that leader and entrepreneur need to focus on versus what you need to delegate to make sure it happens,

[00:35:57] Kenny Lange: Hmm.

[00:35:58] Jennifer Cresswell: To go forward.

[00:35:59] And you can start to [00:36:00] provide focus. If you set your priorities, it will provide focus and you'll start to clear your path.

[00:36:06] Kenny Lange: Love that. And that's, it's simple. You could do that during your lunch break or something like that. So do it on your phone. Go for a walk and do it. Just don't get run over a bit by a dog. Um, Because I'm, I'm not liable for that. But Jennifer, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.

[00:36:22] I know you have plenty more to give. So we'll have to have you back on, on a follow up episode, but if people wanna know more about you, more about thought Grow and your work where would you send them?

[00:36:32] Jennifer Cresswell: Please connect with me on LinkedIn. Jennifer Cresswell, I'm out there. I love love to connect with new people and solve problems. You can also go to my website, it's thought Grow, T-H-O-U-G-H-T-G-R-O dot. Com and just Kenny, it's been a pleasure today. I always enjoy talking with you and it's fun as we continue to dig in and try to solve the world's problems one step at a time.

[00:36:56] But yes, I love collaborating with leaders to solve your [00:37:00] problems faster during times of uncertainty so that you can create lasting legacy.

[00:37:06] Kenny Lange: Also to help with the uh, recommendation that I, I just shared with the audience, Kenny, I will have a one pager that will, you know, be a quick worksheet to help you bucket those questions and problems that you have, and then assign those, that urgency or importance to those particular items.

[00:37:26] Jennifer, thank you again for coming on the show. This was a lot of fun. I always enjoy our conversation, so I'm absolutely confident and won't be the last one. Who knows, this may be the most popular episode. I think it's really relevant for today. So thanks for stopping by.

[00:37:40] Kenny Lange: I'm about to do anchorman quotes, but thank you to the listener listeners. If there's tens of listeners, I don't know, whatever, whoever you are we appreciate you for sticking with us, for listening in. I hope it added value to you and your day and your leadership. An easy way for you to pay that forward and add value to other people's leadership is to like [00:38:00] rate, review, subscribe any of those buttons for engagement on whatever platform.

[00:38:04] Form you have it be on YouTube, apple Podcast, Spotify, and the like. This helps the algorithm see the show and put it in front of more people who are looking for content like this. And you never know your engagement may help someone else stumble across this conversation and it unlocks the next step in their leadership and won't that make you feel good in your heart?

[00:38:24] So get your warm and fuzzies and take action today. But until next time, change the way you think. You'll change the way you lead. We'll see you.