How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Kenny Lange: Welcome to the How Leaders Think podcast, a show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think.

Kenny Lange: I'm your host, Kenny Lang, and with me today is McKenzie Reeves Decker.

Kenny Lange: She is the day to day operator of System and Soul and is a lifelong learner of leadership.

Kenny Lange: Great alliteration.

Kenny Lange: Take note.

Kenny Lange: She's passionate about helping business owners unlock potential in their teams and gain clarity about what they can build together.

Kenny Lange: Welcome to the show.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: McKinsey thank you.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: What an honor.

Kenny Lange: I'm going to pretend that there was no hint of sarcasm in your statement there, but I'll leave that to the listeners to decide.

Kenny Lange: So, McKenzie, tell me what has been on your mind lately.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Well, I wouldn't even say if lately is like, over my lifetime or over the last maybe let's call it the last year.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think what's been on my mind is really unlocking and uncovering this myth of leadership and entrepreneurship.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And there's a lot to that, I think, for me, and maybe we get more into it, but I think for me, I've always kind of felt like I didn't belong in leadership and I wasn't an entrepreneur, and yet here we are.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And so I've always sort of felt like at some point the other shoe is going to drop and they're going to find out.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Total impostor syndrome, doubt, all of that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think I'm getting to the other side of like, there's a lot of myths around both entrepreneurship and leadership that I think have led me to believe I don't belong here and I don't think they're true.

Kenny Lange: Well, number one, I'm glad to hear that you have realized that's not true because I think you are a leader.

Kenny Lange: But tell me, you're mentioning that there's myths and misconceptions.

Kenny Lange: So what do you see as the prevailing wisdom and thought pattern around this that you found yourself susceptible to and believing for yourself?

Kenny Lange: And I'm guessing you've noticed that a lot of other people are thinking this same way as well.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah, so, of course I want to just preface and say that I think everyone's definition of leadership or entrepreneurship, I'm kind of talking about those things not as the same thing, but related.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think it gets defined by probably it's like nature and nurture.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: There's the culture you grew up in, right, that tells you what you know about that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And for me, I think I grew up in a culture of I live in the Bible Belt and grew up in a Southern Baptist home, in a Southern Baptist church.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And so leadership to me has always looked like truly, I think, people standing on a podium who have a lot to say with strong opinions and just this confidence and this conviction that is what leaders looks like.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: On the other hand, entrepreneurship.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: My dad is a business owner and he has been my whole life.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think what I saw on that end is this major sacrifice for the sake of a business.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: In order to be a leader in a business, you have to give up so much, you have to work seven days a week, you have to wear yourself out.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think those are the things that I've seen and believed have to be true in order to be successful as a leader or be successful in an entrepreneurial business.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And maybe there's like a little bit of truth to that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think some myths come out of a little bit of truth, but overall, I think for me and some of the leaders I'm meeting with and that I see day to day now that are kind of in the same stage as me.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: They're sort of uncovering that as well.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: That maybe it's not what it looks like at face value or what we thought it was a decade ago.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Does that answer your question?

Kenny Lange: Yeah, I think it does.

Kenny Lange: So if I'm hearing you correctly, the picture of leadership that you saw painted for yourself and in the area and the culture you grew up is there's a lot of number one, you're probably elevated above and out in front of people.

Kenny Lange: It's sort of that typical charismatic leaders that has a lot to say, it's a word you didn't say but it's one that I've been thinking a lot about is the word certainty.

Kenny Lange: And so those leaders, would you say that the leadership tends to have or in your circumstances conveyed a lot of certainty about their opinions on things or whatever the topic at hand was?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Absolutely.

Kenny Lange: And then a lot of work, sacrifice maybe to the extreme right.

Kenny Lange: The seven days a week.

Kenny Lange: Yeah, basically like you work yourself into the ground for something and so seeing those things, what for you?

Kenny Lange: I mean, it's a bit of a leading question, but I guess what have you over the last twelve to 18 months, as you mentioned, that your thinking has been changing.

Kenny Lange: What in that do you believe is really unproductive, maybe borderline harmful?

Kenny Lange: It was for you and maybe for others.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah, that's a great question.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So I think what I've been learning over the last year is I don't think we can show up well out of a place of if we're driving ourselves into the ground for the success of something, I don't think we show up over time.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think there's a point of diminishing returns and maybe the simplest example I can give is like and of course this doesn't happen for everybody, but I don't operate the same way.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: If I don't sleep well, if I get 4 hours of sleep, half of my brain isn't working and I can show up and I can keep going but it's the quality of thinking like the renewed mindset, none of that is in play.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Maybe that's a silly example, but it's like, I think, kind of realizing that if I don't step away from this at times to refresh my thinking or if I don't get a second to think and I'm constantly doing, responding and reacting, then the quality of what I can produce is not there.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think I started to learn that maybe by accident, in a way, I think somewhat by accident and somewhat because I work with an incredible leaders.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Benjamiller, who's also on this podcast, but he's just such a proponent of that, and I think he's really driven that home for me.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And you need to be offline.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I don't know what you're doing, but go and do something else.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I started listening to him because he would yell, quote unquote at me in Slack or online.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And he'd be like, Get out of here.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I started just stepping back and realizing, oh, if I go on a walk or if I go rake the yard, I'm still thinking about some of this stuff.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: But I come back to this better than when I left.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And here's the other answer to your question.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think when I have a life outside of work or if I let my mind move into other areas, I come back more creative.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I come back more renewed.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: But I think the other part of that is everyone that I lead is watching that they're watching.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: If I'm online, then they feel like they need to be online.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And if I'm asking something of them Saturday at 11:00 a.m., they feel like they have to answer.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I started thinking like, I don't really want that for them to be I don't want them to be doing this at their detriment.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I want them to have that same renewal for them to know that I care about what's happening for them outside of the tasks that we have on our plate.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think that answers your question.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think I just started noticing there's a level of health that I really, really want for myself and for this team.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And whether it's just the basics, whether it's physical health and mental and spiritual, I want all of that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I want them to feel supported in that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I want to feel supported in that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think I started realizing with Benj's leadership, I really started realizing I don't want to be sold out to something to the point where I'm not growing and developing all the way around.

Kenny Lange: Right. Yeah. So a couple of things stood out, it sounds

Kenny Lange: like. Number one, you either understood the reality of the demands of your position and what it would take to perform at that level and that sort of pushed you like, okay, I've got to be in this condition in order to perform at this

Kenny Lange: level. The other side, which I think is interesting and might be counterintuitive for people, is noticing the detriment or potential detriment to those you lead push you to make yourself

Kenny Lange: healthier. Somewhat like lots of parents report, like they make life changes once they finally have kids because they see that the effects of their choices, good and bad, are having on their

Kenny Lange: kids. So they'll start hopefully they start to turn a corner or develop new

Kenny Lange: disciplines. What did you find in seeing the responses on Saturdays or something like

Kenny Lange: that? How much of that is a part of you keeping yourself healthy and taking care of yourself, but also setting healthy

Kenny Lange: boundaries? How did your impact on others impact your decision

Kenny Lange: there? Was it a big part of it, or was it just like, oh,

Kenny Lange: snap. Like, that's just a minor

Kenny Lange: correction?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I've definitely spent time over this last year.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So just for context, I've led in teams before, but this past year it's been a new level.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I've been leading people who are I'm 31 years old, and I'm leading people who are older than me, have more business experience than me.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm leading more people than I ever have, leading people in different cultures.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And it's just I think I felt like, oh, shit, I have got to get it together.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And in a couple of ways, I needed to get it together where I really started thinking about, if I'm running this, then how would I want to run this if I'm making it my own?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think that was a big part of it.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I wanted to take care of the people that I lead.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I want to say one more thing that I kind of I think I left in the dust, but I think part of that same train of thought around like, oh, I'm like, trying to I really want to lead well, and I want to make this my own.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I I started realizing that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I started realizing I think this is where that, like, huge tension of like, oh, I'm not like, the charismatic leaders, and I'm not the one with all the answers, and they need that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And here I am showing up with all this doubt, and I was really bothered because I'm like, this isn't how I want to be, but I'm not that person.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm not going to preach.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm not super commanding.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It's just not my style.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I always thought that was just such a problem.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I thought that was a real good grief.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I thought that was whatever the opposite of an asset is.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It really felt like a debt liability.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: A liability, yeah, it really felt like a liability.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I feel like I just had to contend with that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I just had to learn how to like, okay, what am I going to do with this?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think what I realized is I have to find a way to make this an asset.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: How do I show up and just show up as me with all the questions and lack of experience and soft tone and whatever else it might be?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Collaborative mindset.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think I just started to have to find a way to turn the coin over and say, okay, what value does this have and go have confidence.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It has value.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I say that, like, it was super easy, but it absolutely hasn't been.

Kenny Lange: Leadership is easy, right?

Kenny Lange: So simple.

Kenny Lange: I don't even know why we're still writing books about it.

Kenny Lange: Just to add a little bit of context for those who don't know, you've referenced the last year, year and a half and said this.

Kenny Lange: And when you're leading this, obviously in your introduction, I mentioned you're the operator for System and Soul.

Kenny Lange: Can you add a little bit more context for those who don't know what that looks like for you?

Kenny Lange: Like, maybe even a little of what System and Soul is, clearly.

Kenny Lange: I know, but just to orient people around, what is the role you're fulfilling?

Kenny Lange: Because myself or somebody else that we may have on later, that's a coach have a very different relationship to this than you do, where you're sort of like you're the woman on the inside.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: The woman on the inside.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I like it.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So System and Soul is a business framework that we've developed, and it really is intended to integrate and highlight both the systems that are so incredibly valuable to the foundations of any business and the soul that's unique and a value accelerator for that business.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So what we've done and what I feel like, it's just been such a gift, and I'm so grateful for the role I've gotten to play.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: But from the get go, I've been working with Chris and Benjar other founders to sort of canonize what we've developed.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: They have these wonderful visionary ideas, and my role is to capture and help deliver so much of the thinking and I guess the execution pieces behind the ideas that the framework supports.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So my role is helping guide our team and keep our projects and our objectives that we have every quarter on track and helping decide what's the right thing to work on to help us grow our business.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So we're a startup.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: We're on the front end.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: We're like a year and three, four in.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And this for me, has been the very first entrepreneurial experience I've ever had.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I've always worked in established companies with lots of rules and processes already in place.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And so here we are at the beginning, and I feel like I'm building a lot of it, and it's both, like, thrilling and gratifying and also terrifying.

Kenny Lange: Those are all great things in an entrepreneurial venture.

Kenny Lange: And just again, for more context for the listener, the company you came out of was super established.

Kenny Lange: If you're comfortable sharing that, talk a little bit about that because I think when people think leadership, they're associating this gentleman with that.

Kenny Lange: Because as another leader I follow says every time he sneezes, there's a new book which feels like that.

Kenny Lange: Can you contrast what you're doing now with how established that is?

Kenny Lange: And I think it lends an interesting perspective to what you've been saying about leadership coming out of that organization, because of the, I guess, perceived culture and what they do in the world.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah, that's a really good point.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So I spent a stent of time with what is now called Maxwell Leadership.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: At the time I was there, it was called the John Maxwell Company, and John Maxwell is a world renowned leadership author.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I feel like when I was there, the count of books he's written was like 80, and it's probably like 90 or more, maybe 100.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: But I worked there.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: The experience there was I think it was so profound for me to spend.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I spent five years in that organization and very early in my career, and I'm like, I can't believe that I got to do that, because I think I learned so much about the foundations of what leadership looks like to lead yourself well, that it's both relationship and management.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It's kind of this interplay that we support with System and Soul.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I feel like it preceded what we're building in the best way.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I would say, though, the organization on the inside, I was always a team member, even if I was leading a team at one point, but I was more of an individual contributor most of the time.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And the people in leadership, they were charismatic and they were kind of the people that can bring a group together and inspire them and get them going.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I was the girl over there with my notebook being like, anyone want me to share my notes?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I can get it done, just give it to me.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I was just much more on the execution side and good at it.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It helped me kind of rise into leadership there.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: But I think what it's different about working in that environment and working in the one we are now is I think it is that for me, it's been just big scary gap of, like, people are telling me what to do to now I'm directing myself.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: My decisions have greater consequences, they have greater return as well as consequence. Right.

Kenny Lange: High risk, high reward.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah, there's absolutely that sense of like, I could be wrong right now, and it's going to affect people in a new way.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And yeah, I think that's probably the biggest for me, that's the biggest thing.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I forgot the second part you had relating it back to what I was.

Kenny Lange: Saying earlier, but just coming out of that environment where it's a very established company and one that has been focused on leadership.

Kenny Lange: But it sounds like, it hasn't been until you actually exited that company, joined System and Soul, and in a more entrepreneurial, exciting and terrifying sense that you really started to have that change of thinking of like it doesn't have to be charismatic and galvanizing if we're going to use some working genius language there.

Kenny Lange: So plug.

Kenny Lange: I get paid $0.10.

Kenny Lange: No, I'm just kidding.

Kenny Lange: But I think intuitively you would think, oh, yeah, you're in this great leadership teaching organization.

Kenny Lange: Shouldn't have that all have come about there.

Kenny Lange: Instead, it came about in a startup that does focus on leadership, or that's a healthy component with the soul side of everything.

Kenny Lange: But I find it interesting that that didn't occur until that was no longer your environment.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah, you know, what I would say is I learned all the principles, but I couldn't see like, I read had to read all those books, all those 80 or 100 books, but I think I knew all the information.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I just didn't have I shouldn't say I didn't have the opportunity to use it.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I did.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think I was living in that kind of impostor or like, oh, you can't do that, because I didn't look like the leaders that were in front of me.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: The other thing I would say is I think like we were saying earlier, I think leadership is defined by the environment you're in.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think in that particular environment, a lot of leadership is a lot of leadership is demonstrated by John Maxwell.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And he's an incredible leader.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And the way he leads is communicating on stage, it's writing, it's being like a voice, a big voice for people.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And he attracts a lot of people who really want to do the same, think they want to demonstrate leadership in the same ways.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And so I think I felt like, oh, I don't want anyone to hand me a microphone like, Kenny, why did you ask me to do this?

Kenny Lange: Hand me a task list and it'll be done.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Right. The thing is, I think I had to realize every situation calls for different styles of leadership and different

McKenzie Reeves Decker: skills. And not all leadership can be not all captured in one type of

McKenzie Reeves Decker: person. And I think that's so

McKenzie Reeves Decker: duh. But I think because of the world I was in, I was like, I don't look like

McKenzie Reeves Decker: that. But I think because of necessity at this point in this startup, there's just so much that's required of you that you just have to

McKenzie Reeves Decker: do. You cannot do

McKenzie Reeves Decker: it. But it's like, if I want this to succeed, I just have to get over this fear or I just have to try and just show up and that's all I can

McKenzie Reeves Decker: do. So I think there was just necessity that forced

McKenzie Reeves Decker: this.

Kenny Lange: Sometimes it is nice to have your back up against the wall.

Kenny Lange: And I think Eminem said it well, success is my only there's an expletive in there.

Kenny Lange: My only flip an option.

Kenny Lange: Failure is not.

Kenny Lange: And when you feel like that, and that may not be the truth, but it can feel like that in a startup and an entrepreneurial organization, that sometimes is the push you need to get over whatever your own mental blockade is.

Kenny Lange: Because it sounds like in a lot of cases and I experienced this too, being the young guy, wherever I went, I was like, oh, no, all the senior adult people, even when I'm a full grown adult with children, I still feel like walk into a room, I'm the young guy.

Kenny Lange: But that was my own perception, and there's been moments where I've been pushed to get over it.

Kenny Lange: And it sounds like that's been your experience.

Kenny Lange: So a couple of things have stood out, taking care of yourself so that, one, you can perform at a high level.

Kenny Lange: So hopefully there are listeners who have that sort of that drive, that high growth mindset, and they want to keep going.

Kenny Lange: And if you think about it like you would a professional athlete, that's been a metaphor that's helped me a lot lately, especially when it comes to rest, like professional athletes have scheduled rest and recovery and what they do.

Kenny Lange: So it sounds like thinking about your performance, thinking about the impact it makes on others, but then also getting out of maybe your own way or challenging your perceptions of yourself, or the conventional wisdom that says leadership is loud and proud and on stage and everything.

Kenny Lange: But there's actually different expressions of leadership, and certain moments call for different styles of leadership.

Kenny Lange: Would you say that that's sort of where you've arrived now and what you're encouraging other leaders to think about, or is there something missing there?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: No, I think that's spot on.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And maybe one way to encompass it is a couple of great leaders in the last year have this stuff.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Sometimes someone says something and it's like it just sticks to your brain.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And one of those things for me has been when some of that self doubt or some of that stuff that I've seen that's like, oh, to be a leader means to work 80 hours.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Oh, being a leader means to do exactly sacrifice everything.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I think the thing that sticks in my head is like, maybe you're telling yourself an old story.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I credit Benj again and John Ought for that one, but it's like, maybe that was maybe you were not capable of this ten years ago, but maybe that's old maybe that's old news.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think that's been kind of a freeing thought that I think I've said it to more people in the last six months than ever.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: But I don't know, maybe that's helpful for anyone, wherever they are.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Just to the person we've been or the way that something's been done in the past doesn't mean that it has to be done that way going forward.

Kenny Lange: Yeah, I really like that because it gives grace to the way you've been and the way you've perceived things.

Kenny Lange: And isn't this shaming, like, stupid, why didn't you think it better?

Kenny Lange: Sort of thing.

Kenny Lange: Maybe you're telling yourself an old story.

Kenny Lange: I love that and I think that's helpful.

Kenny Lange: The other thing that connected him in my brain was a quote from I don't know if he's in the category of theologian.

Kenny Lange: I feel like he is because I only hear him on spiritually oriented podcasts and stuff, but Ken Wilbur has a phrase that's transcend and include, and it's saying, like, all the things that came before.

Kenny Lange: Because I have a bunch of kids in school, and so I have a 7th grader, 6th grader, and two fourth graders right now.

Kenny Lange: My 6th and 7th graders shouldn't look down on the fourth grader of like, oh, you're in fourth grade, you're you're learning those things.

Kenny Lange: I was like, yeah, you had to as well.

Kenny Lange: You didn't know that you may have appeared less than intelligent at that point in time, and the teacher had to educate you, son.

Kenny Lange: It's probably mostly my son, because he likes to pretend that he's known everything his entire life since the womb, but I don't know where he gets it from.

Kenny Lange: But it's that notion of I've gone through things, other people are going through things.

Kenny Lange: And yeah, maybe there probably were mistakes, but I get to include those and keep going.

Kenny Lange: And there's grace for that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah.

Kenny Lange: So if somebody wanted to maybe give themselves some grace and challenge, if they were telling themselves an old story, believing they've got to work their face off, they can't take care of themselves, they've got to go to the point of exhaustion.

Kenny Lange: Or maybe they're just woefully unqualified because their leadership doesn't look like the pitcher they've had growing up or early in business.

Kenny Lange: If somebody were to take a first step in the next 24 hours after hearing this, where would you tell them to start?

Kenny Lange: Because obviously it's taken you twelve to 18 months after five years of being in an environment and getting those things installed.

Kenny Lange: So you've been on a journey.

Kenny Lange: What's a great first step in the next 24 hours someone can take?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Well, I think it does start with the story we're telling ourselves.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And maybe it's in our world, we have a term called a clarity break, where we kind of get with our thoughts and kind of think about it can be usually it's guided by a specific question, but maybe it's two questions.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It's like asking, what old stories am I telling myself?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think maybe the other one in conjunction with it is like I think it's just asking, what do you really want?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: If you want it, and then if you want it, what is it?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And then why can you have it?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Or why can't you?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And if it's because of some, it could be that you uncover some of those self doubt things.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: It's like, oh, I can't do that because X and it's like, is that true?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Though there's probably some I think it's a long process to uncover some of that, but I would say maybe get alone with those thoughts, what you want in the long term, and then maybe what old stories are sort of preventing that thing from being taking place.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Maybe one other thing is I think sometimes the people that love us best are the ones who can sort of pull back the curtain on some of that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: There's probably people in everyone's sphere that are cheering them on and see things in them that they can't see yet.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And sometimes I would say, like my husband Jake, he's a mirror for me and for things that I can't see, I would say my leaders, Benj, he does that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think there's probably other handful of people that just go, hey, you don't see this, but you can do this.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think everyone needs those people around them, so maybe it's a self reflection and then go find those trusted voices and get their input as well.

Kenny Lange: That's excellent.

Kenny Lange: And you mentioned the Clarity break.

Kenny Lange: And Chris and Benj wrote the Clarity Field guide.

Kenny Lange: I'll put a link to that in the show notes so you can go buy it on Amazon because it is just a phenomenal investment you can make to get some great questions to ask yourself because it's really hard to judo yourself into great questions and answers.

Kenny Lange: And so sometimes you need that externally, sometimes from a book, sometimes from a person.

Kenny Lange: And if you are going to go find that person, a great question I have found for that very situation is and I can't take credit for it, I stole it from somebody else.

Kenny Lange: But what do you know about me that I don't?

Kenny Lange: But I should?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I love that.

Kenny Lange: Now some people are going to think they're just going to tell me all the awful, mean, nasty things about me, but that doesn't have to it could also be, hey, you are a lot more powerful, commanding, intelligent, thoughtful, articulate than you're giving yourself credit for.

Kenny Lange: So I'll put that question in there as well because I think if you went and found some people that you really do trust and that love you and want the best for you and you ask them that question, I think you're going to be surprised and delighted with the answers.

Kenny Lange: I've done that a few times and it's always produced good results.

Kenny Lange: Sometimes it stings, but it's always been for the best for me and for them.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Yeah, love that.

Kenny Lange: McKitty is there anything else you'd like to share that maybe we didn't cover?

Kenny Lange: No is an acceptable answer as well.

Kenny Lange: So you have an out?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Well, it wasn't in my outline, which I made 30 days ago.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm just kidding.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm not kidding.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm not kidding at all.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Here's one thing I want to say.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I feel like if you really knew me, you would know like, I live in the world of productivity, efficiency, and living in this, this, like, whole conversation, I feel like it kind of comes across as very inspirational.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think I just want to say the productivity and efficiency just they don't happen without some of this belief.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So I think we can't separate the soft skills that we have to have from the hard skills that produce results.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I think it's easy to say, oh, I.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Don't need that.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I can do my job without this.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Right, but it's like, yeah, you can, but is that what you really want?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And so I just want to say, I think it's it's both and and it's not just nice to have, you know yeah.

Kenny Lange: Some might say you need a system and a soul.

Kenny Lange: I've heard that a few times here and there.

Kenny Lange: So, McKenzie, if people want to know more about system and soul or you or reach out to you with with questions, maybe this sparks something from them and they'd like to ask, where would you direct people to go from here?

McKenzie Reeves Decker: Well, you can always learn more about the system and soul@systemandsol.com.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I was thinking it would be funny if I gave you a fake email.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: And I was like, Mckinsey@aol.com, no.

Kenny Lange: Sbcglobal net.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: All these fake email addresses will be in the how notes I'm reachable on LinkedIn.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm happy to talk to anyone at any point about anything, and I feel like I'm in the center of a bunch of really cool resources.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I've just been blessed to be given everything I have as far as leadership, management, development.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: All of those things are just I probably have at least one idea.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: So, Kenny, if you want to give out my email, you can, or my LinkedIn.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: I'm glad.

Kenny Lange: Yeah, we'll put your LinkedIn in the show notes, and then that way people can reach out, connect, see some of the posts and things that you're sharing.

McKenzie Reeves Decker: You can give them my landline.

Kenny Lange: Yeah. Could I also include your fax

Kenny Lange: number? Because that would be just

Kenny Lange: terrific. But McKenzie, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your thoughts, sharing your wisdom, and helping us move along and hopefully get us out of an old

Kenny Lange: story. For all of you listeners, I hope that you take your next step in the next 24 hours, because your activity will breed more productivity, inspiration, and

Kenny Lange: transformation. Until next time we'll see

Kenny Lange: you.