How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Edited Unlocking Leadership Potential_ Harnessing the Power of the Enneagram for Self-Awareness and Growth
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[00:00:05] Kenny Lange: I love talking to organizations, to leaders, to people who are really trying to do good in the world. Um, I want to help them do well, and typically I'm doing that by taking people who are full of purpose and translating that into performance.

[00:00:21] Right? It's one thing to be Uh, excited about making a difference, making an impact. You're dent in the universe, as some people say. It's another thing to really do something with that, that is meaningful. Um, I talk a lot to non profits. Um, but also to faith driven entrepreneurs, such as yourself, and say, raise your hand if you got into this to make the smallest impact possible.

[00:00:46] And without fail, I've yet to have one person raise their hand. The day that I do, I'm going to have some real serious questions for that person. Or I'll be speechless. Um, so the latter may be more of a, of a notable event. [00:01:00] But, If you didn't get into business or into the non profit space to make the smallest impact possible, well then we've got to really evaluate the things that we're doing to grow ourselves, our teams, and our organizations.

[00:01:15] Um, and whether or not they're working, or if they just aren't. Make us feel warm and fuzzy on the inside, right? And one of the best ways, um, from a individual leadership perspective, it can apply to teams. And as you'll see, it trickles down into our organizations is how we grow ourselves. Um, I, if anybody's a fan of Craig Rochelle, um, obviously he's, you know, his lead leader, founder of, of life, life.

[00:01:39] church, um, bold move there, Craig, uh, with that URL. Bye. You know, he signs off, um, his podcast with a, with a phrase that stuck with me, which is, uh, when the leader gets better, everyone else does too. And I'm a huge proponent of that. And one of the things that's made the biggest difference in my life has [00:02:00] been a tool like the Enneagram, which I am now using.

[00:02:03] Accredited through, uh, Integrative Enneagram, uh, Group. So, I really love their approach to not just say, Hey, all of this about you is bad and all about this, uh, potential is good. Let's remove the bad and go to the good. It's like there's, there really is an integration of things. As, uh, Ken Wilber has famously said, Transcend and include.

[00:02:25] You know, when you're going through your grades and you're in third grade or fourth grade or whatever, you don't look down on kindergartners because they're in kindergarten because You, too, were once in kindergarten. So, some of the things that we're going to go through today are What is EQ? It's thrown around a whole lot.

[00:02:46] But EQ is, is an essential part of successful leadership to the point now to where it's being studied by the likes of Harvard and Kornferry and Forbes and all these other people. What is the cost of [00:03:00] personality? I think we live in a time where personality is full on display and we say, you know, dumb things like, I'm just being me, like, which is the greatest cop out For being irresponsible, rude, obstinate, and an obstacle to progress in the name of, well, I just, I can't let everybody take away from me.

[00:03:22] There, there's a cost there. Uh, what is self awareness? And, and who does it affect? What is the Enneagram? Right? Like, there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation. Um, you know, some people are, are scared off by the, by the actual image of the, uh, The types represented. Um, we're going to break down the fact that it's not scary and it's not witchcraft.

[00:03:50] Right? It's Greek words put together to communicate something, like a lot of our language. Which type are you? And [00:04:00] what do you look like at your best and what do you look like at your worst? growth practices so you can look like the best version of you in the way that as we're talking here, the way in which God wired you or designed you.

[00:04:13] Um, and if, you know, I know I'm recording this so that it can go out, be used in other trainings, um, but, um, Some people may just say, look, I feel like I was born for this. You hear that a lot. Like, I feel like I was just wired to do this thing that I'm, I'm doing or to lead in a certain way. And I'm not going to disagree with that, but there's a healthy expression of that and an unhealthy expression of that.

[00:04:37] What are some next steps that we can take? Like, great, Kenny. Like I learned about some things you were entertaining. Um, you did a little dog and pony show for us, but what do I actually do with this? So it makes a difference in my leadership when I leave here. So, uh, I'm going to borrow a few, these first few slides are going to look a little different and it's mostly because I stole them.

[00:04:59] [00:05:00] Um, but it's from a group, uh, called Leader Factor and Dr. Timothy Clark, uh, who wrote the Four Stages of Psychological Safety, uh, another tool for which I am certified and think highly of and, and love the approach. Um, they have just recently this year, uh, released their research and their work with emotional intelligence or EQ is called the EQ index.

[00:05:26] And the basic definition is this, the ability to interact effectively with others, right? Cause we can study all these different tools and things that we want to have and use to grow our leadership in our organizations or empower our teams. Um, but if they're just a bunch of tools and yet another thing, which you've probably rolled your eyes or seen other people roll their eyes, like, ah, it's another assessment.

[00:05:49] It's another tool, it's the flavor of the month, right? But if we don't translate it and connect it to something, it doesn't hold meaning. So the meaning here that [00:06:00] we're trying to attach, what we're going to talk about today, is with regards to emotional intelligence and the ability to interact effectively.

[00:06:08] And isn't that what a lot of leadership is all about? Is our ability to effectively interact with other people and influence them towards a common purpose, a goal, a cause. Um, if you follow, uh, John Maxwell, um, because every time he sneezes, he has another leadership book. Um, but, you know, he says everything rises and falls on leadership and defines leadership as influence, nothing more, nothing less.

[00:06:35] There are three components of emotional intelligence, and one is, that has been missing from a lot of the research is this behavior. So, What do you believe this could also be like what you feelings like what you experience from that standpoint perceptions? What do you know your mind and then behaviors actions?

[00:06:56] What do you put your hand to right and those three things show up [00:07:00] in the Enneagram? They also show up in other things like the empowerment dynamic They show up and and a lot of even just coaching on how to speak is like What do you want them to know think and feel or you know and do? You Like, by the time that you're done.

[00:07:15] Those are things I have considerations for whenever I speak. Like, now! So, if we have these three components of emotional intelligence, we break those down. What do you believe, or feel, and what do you know, and then what do you do? Emotional intelligence really affects two categories. Internal competencies and external competencies.

[00:07:37] Um, I, uh, use a book, um, by a guy, uh, named Tim Spiker, who I mentioned last year when I, uh, was speaking when we were at the Fort Worth Club about the only leaders worth following. And it came down out of the eight characteristics in this massive research study, came down to eight characteristics. Six of them were what leaders [00:08:00] do.

[00:08:00] Two of them are who leaders are. And it turns out that when you weight those characteristics, they're not equal across all eight. The two who's were actually 77 percent of what makes a leader effective. And those two things were being inwardly sound and others focused. Now, you may say, that's great, what does that mean?

[00:08:22] Well, he goes into that in his book, which I highly recommend. But, um, and he's, he's also a fellow believer. You can see it woven out through, uh, the, the book. But these are the things we need for internal competencies and external. So, social, self and social regard. Self awareness, which is key. Mentioned in the title, which we need, um, social awareness, self management, and social management.

[00:08:44] Now, self awareness in particular, um, has been noted by, uh, a huge study at Cornell, um, as one of the best predictors of leadership success. Um, they did a huge study of like Fortune [00:09:00] 500 companies, um, and trying to figure out like what are the things that we can point to that would indicate, um, leadership success.

[00:09:06] someone is going to be a great leader. It's all, it's, it's awesome to know it after the fact, but what if we could predict it? Or what if we knew the levers to press on to pull that could help us create more consistently great leaders? Self awareness is one of those things, and there's no better tool in my, um, professional opinion than the Enneagram for this.

[00:09:32] So I have a question for you on the screen, and it's, and it's one that I ponder a lot. Who were you before the world told you it wasn't okay to be that way?

[00:09:46] At some point in your life, in your childhood, in your teenage years, and a particular, uh, triggering experience, memorable experience, probably not for the right reasons, a series [00:10:00] of consistent experiences, whether at home, in a family group, or something like that, communicated to you that, oh, I'm trying to be this way.

[00:10:11] That's not gonna be okay. I'm not, in your mind, subconsciously, you think, I'm not going to survive if I continue this way. I was a marshmallow when I started out. I was a, I was a sweet, tender hearted kid that could, I, I would get upset. At the smallest things. Um, if I saw somebody in pain. Uh, I remember very clearly my mom wanted me to watch, um, Edward Scissorhands.

[00:10:41] It's a classic movie, great acting. Johnny Depp, all these things. And, it's a great story of, like, transformation. And he's sort of like, oh, he's nurtured. He's got human connection and all these things. I, I couldn't make it through the movie because I was so upset with how poorly he was treated and, [00:11:00] and all the pain that I saw on his face and, and what he experienced and the loneliness and the isolation.

[00:11:05] I just, I could not stomach it. I was a little, soft, squishy marshmallow. But along the way, as I got into social circles, I started to learn this may not be the way to go. So, how do those early experiences shape us? Now I'm not trying to dredge up a bunch of like childhood trauma. I do have a bachelor's in psychology, but I am not a licensed professional counselor.

[00:11:32] You're gonna have to seek that outside of here. But what happens is over time we get, I got toastier and toastier, right? When I started to look a little, little crisp. Now I know some of you may say, I love a good burnt marshmallow. Well then I'm your people. Um, but I had things like, I've never met my biological father.

[00:11:55] So I've dealt with issues of abandonment. For a really, really long time. The best [00:12:00] example I can give you, um, of this is the scene from Fresh Prince of Bel Air when Will's dad shows up after so many years. Um, and I still have trouble talking about it, um, without it moving me, but essentially shows up early, tells uncle Phil that he's like, I got to go on the road.

[00:12:20] I got to do this thing, chase this, whatever. And he's flaking out and Will gets upset. And ends up saying all these different things and ends with, how come he don't want me, man? How come he don't want me? That's a story that I've played in my head for years on end, even though I got adopted and by, by my dad, who's been a wonderful father.

[00:12:42] I'm not saying we we've gone without issues. We're both really strong headed individuals. So it's been like rams, you know, at times, but he's been a wonderful dad to me, but I still dealt with that. I was bullied quite regularly, um, uh, [00:13:00] verbally growing up, um, until finally my parents pulled me out of school.

[00:13:04] Not for those reasons, I certainly was relieved, but even in sports on my soccer teams, because I was trying to be, you Nice, or just have fun and be playful, and I didn't want to be mean spirited, but I learned very quickly, like, I'm going to have to toughen up and sharpen up if I want to make it through here.

[00:13:22] And instead, it became easier and easier to be angry than it was to be hurt. And instead of feeling so out of control, I started looking for ways to leverage my anger to gain control over my circumstances, not other people, but over my own circumstances. I, um, you know, I, I dealt with those rejections growing up, the bullying, um, I almost always was the, the person getting broken up with, um, never the, uh, heartbreaker, um, which I suppose is not like a great badge of honor if you're on the other side of that.

[00:13:57] But, um, was engaged [00:14:00] to somebody who, um, ended up verbally and physically abusing me. That left a mark on me. And all these things led to, I'm more and more toasted. The world is not safe. It is not friendly. It is not for me. And even though I had my, my belief in Christ at an early age, um, I felt called to ministry and to, to serve others in the church from, from the age of 15 and would intern.

[00:14:28] Even times in church taught me, you're not safe. My youth pastor who I, who helped usher me into ministry and I thought the world of, was unceremoniously fired because of, uh, an older person in our ministry who, in the church, who misperceived something that was happening, complained about it, and because she was such a regular and large giver to the church, wielded influence, [00:15:00] that ended up hurting him, his family, And it ended up hurting me as well.

[00:15:05] So I didn't trust the church. I actually left attending church for over a year because of that. I was like, I thought this was a safe place. I thought we were caring, compassionate, loving, and grace filled, and we weren't. So we choose our survival strategy. As I mentioned, mine was anger. It was, it was leveraging control.

[00:15:25] It was having a sharp tongue so that there's no way that you're going to hurt me because I'll get you right back. So as encouraging as I could be. I could be equally as mean spirited. So I decided to cover my burnt marshmallow and gold stars and became achievement minded. So, And I know the way that this is going to come across is going to sound like oh great Can you just hyped yourself up and patted yourself on the back and I'm not doing it for those purposes But I'm telling you where the burntness drove me to was to go into hyper overachiever mode [00:16:00] I rarely if ever had B's I didn't have my first B until I was in like fifth grade and it was an 89 and I remember the conversation with my Parents I perceived this pressure to like always make A's I went to college, my grades got better as I went on.

[00:16:16] I didn't read any of the books until I was probably somewhere in my senior year. And then I felt like I had magic powers. I was like, Oh my gosh! I know what this I I already read this! It's like, I'm reading your mind, professor. Maybe I should teach the class. Um, I, um, I was the first person in UT Tyler's history to get concurrent bachelor's degrees.

[00:16:38] I got two four year degrees in the time it takes to get one four year degree. Um, we had, we started a family early, so I feel much older than I actually am. I think in my soul I'm about 72. Um, physically currently I'm 36. Um, but had kids real early. I started my first company in my late [00:17:00] 20s. Um, which is the typical age is, is usually, uh, someone in their 40s is when they are, uh, starting their first business.

[00:17:09] And I grew it to six figures, which most businesses are not reaching six figures. Most of them are capping out about. 50 to 60 thousand dollars a year and I did that in three years I grew it to five years 80 of businesses are probably not making it to five years I know paul you you've walked that so you're beating all the odds So that's why I ask people like paul like what did you do to make it past this beyond praying I get it Um, but how do you keep going when all the odds are against you?

[00:17:39] Not only that, but I sold that business and helped that business Nearly double in revenue in the span of two years through covid So I took them from high six figures to low seven figures in two years using a lot of the things that I now Coach and bring into my practice Which is two years old and I've [00:18:00] already built a second six figure company And this is before the age of 40 and I looked up the stats on this less than 10 percent of the entrepreneurial population in the u.

[00:18:09] s Has done this i'm not saying that i'm i'm the smartest or anything like that I don't have a billion dollar unicorn, but god has gifted me in such a way to achieve these things I've and they've been good. They're not bad. Nothing i've described is inherently evil You But the motivation behind them has not been one that has allowed me to live in peace.

[00:18:36] What I actually ended up becoming is a marshmallow wrapped in razor wire. Everybody's at arm's distance. Nobody's really close to me. Now, would they say that I was mean spirited? No. I would say I was generally nice. I was funny. I was entertaining. But nobody really knew me. [00:19:00] There's a great, um, quote. I don't know where to attribute it to.

[00:19:03] But, um, it said, to the degree. That you are known is to the degree that you can be loved. The thing I wanted most was to be loved, but the thing I was least was known. I didn't let anybody in. I only let you know what you needed to going so far as to let certain things out that seemed like they were deep and really connected.

[00:19:27] And I was letting you in so that you wouldn't ask any questions. This is not a great way to live, but it's how so many of us. through the course of time, we adopt a personality that helps us feel safe as we're growing up and getting into our professional lives. And at some point it stops working. What do you do then?

[00:19:51] Well, it's hard to know unless you know where everything is rooted. So what is the Enneagram? [00:20:00] It's an archetypal model of nine types. That sounds like a lot of big words. But if you've ever heard of, like, there are archetypes. Like, there's different characters and stories. Like, you have the hero and the villain and the complication.

[00:20:12] Like, it's all of those things. It's nine archetypes. used for personal development. And one of the biggest things that I love about it is that, unlike a lot of other assessments, and don't get me wrong, I love other assessments. Like, I'm an assessment junkie. Um, I want to go through them. I want to see them.

[00:20:29] And I firmly believe in the quote, uh, uh, that says, all models are flawed, but some are useful. And in my opinion, is that a lot of these help us see the outline, the border, the shading of who God created us to be. They help give us clues, right? They're never a substitute for the Bible or, or those sort of things, but they can give us clues along the way.

[00:20:59] And it provides a [00:21:00] deeper insight into core motivation and fears driving, driving the behavior, needs, and our intentions. So, A lot of other tools may say, you're in this box. Like last, uh, last month we had a great, great talk. I, I just forgot the speaker's name. Um, but it covered a lot of the disk personality profile.

[00:21:20] Uh, for which I am like an off the charts D. Like they can't even find my dot on the plot. But, um, yeah, yeah. It was like, I seem a lot friendlier than that would indicate. Um, secondary is I. It's good. But, which is why we can all be doing similar things, but be motivated very, very differently below the surface.

[00:21:45] So, it shows you the box you're in and how to get out. I've taken all these different assessments. I've taken Disks and Myers Briggs and, you know, there's Big Five and Hogan and all these others. And I have nothing bad to say about them [00:22:00] except that once you get your type, your style, your thing, what now?

[00:22:07] They don't have great answers. At least they didn't for me. So the way we work on, uh, self awareness, think about this in concentric circles.

[00:22:15] So individuals who are self aware are more aware of their habits and are therefore better able to reflect and change their behaviors. Put a different way in the business world, what can be measured can be managed and improved. If, if you can clearly articulate your behaviors and what you're doing, you can do something about it.

[00:22:36] If it's just this ethereal nothingness, well, what are you supposed to do about it? You can't do anything about it, until you really give it some language. Now that, when we do that, it translates down here into teams. And teams that are compassionate, authentic, with their engagement, it will drive trust.

[00:22:54] Which is sorely missing in so many teams. If you look at, like, Lencioni's work with the five dysfunctions of a [00:23:00] team, and trust being the foundational layer, if that's missing, you, you got nothing else. Right? Everything else is sort of like a house of cards. And this applies not just in teams, but groups, like us, and families, like we have.

[00:23:14] Those things can be applied. Then finally, we moved down into organization or in communities. If you look at the learnings from these two, if we can apply them down here, they'll create an improved collaboration ability to affect change, which aren't we all trying to affect change, not just do the same things over and over again, even if we're in a for profit situation.

[00:23:37] So, this is like a huge domino that you can push over to make everything else better. So when the leader gets better, everything else does too. Psychodynamic, I know it's a big word, but it's basically just how are we composed in terms of what all goes into us, right? We talked about, we have thoughts and beliefs [00:24:00] and, and behaviors and actions.

[00:24:03] And I know it's a little cliched, but I think it still works, is that so much behavior and personality is above the surface. It's what's observable. It's why we think two people are the exact same, but they may be motivated very, very differently, because all those motivations, those defenses, the anxiety, the fears, all that's below the surface, all of this stuff is why my marshmallow got toasty and wrapped in razor wire, but all you saw was this, so you still thought, like, oh my gosh, this guy is just, he's great, he's in it for the right reasons, he's not running away from anything or trying to cover up his pain with a gold star.

[00:24:37] It's because you can only see this. So what happens when we go below the surface? let's go through the nine types, and I'll give you some typing questions, which, on your handout, if you look on page two and three, inside of there, I'm gonna have all of these questions, and they're color matched, uh, to this, so that you can start to figure out maybe which type you resonate [00:25:00] with.

[00:25:00] Again, there's no, like, well, if you scored this, then you're exactly that. It's really about resonance. So, we're starting with my type, type eight, the active controller. They're assertive, they're direct, they're decisive. Key motivations, being strong and in control, avoiding weakness and vulnerability, making things happen and making decisions.

[00:25:20] Their core belief, the thing that echoes in a Type 8's head is, I must be strong and I must be in control. Now, um, and I don't have all of these memorized. I did happen to give a sermon where I included some of this and included some characters from, and people from the Bible. Samson fits into this.

[00:25:39] You know, worshipped his strength a lot more than who gave it to him. Um, and ended up, you know, dying ultimately. Now he got redeemed at the end, which is a through line throughout scripture. Um, but he had to be in control. So how do you know if you're innate? Do you have an extraordinarily [00:26:00] strong and bold exterior?

[00:26:01] One that is sometimes intimidating to others. This one is always fun when people tell me that they are intimidated by me and I'm like, Oh, I'm not like 6'5 275, I'm not a linebacker, I'm not Micah Parsons, like, I'm not, I'm not about to rush you, so what is it? And it was just an intensity I had, apparently I was singeing people's eyebrows.

[00:26:24] I need to be aware of that. Are you excessive in what you do? Like, you were asking me about triathlons. I had no prior experience and I went from zero, to doing a Half Ironman in three months last year, and not only did one, but I did two of them. I actually ran the second one with tears in my hamstring where it inserts into my calf muscle.

[00:26:46] Why? I tend to be excessive. If, if, if a little is good, too much is just enough. Do you have immediate impulses to take strong and forceful action? It's a fire aim ready sort of mode of [00:27:00] operation.

[00:27:00] the way you can filter it if you're on the fence about any of these is if it's not a heck yeah, it's a no. Nines, adaptive peacemakers. Now, my wife happens to be a type nine, which once I figured this out, it made so many things better in our relationship.

[00:27:16] Um, I still get frustrated, but at least I can understand why. they're easy going, they're non aggressive, they're really accommodating. Some people theorize that more presidents have been nines than any other type, mostly because they have this ability to make you feel heard and seen without actually agreeing with you, which can sound manipulative, but they generally are just like, what do you think?

[00:27:38] Oh, yeah, that is a great idea. Now, I didn't agree and say I was going to do anything, but I made you feel heard. They must create harmony. They must avoid conflict. That's the mantra in their head. I would venture a guess that there are a lot of people in ministry who also happen to be nines, um, because they value peace and harmony.

[00:27:59] But these people are [00:28:00] trying to keep peace and harmony within themselves. They actually fall into a temptation of believing that their presence doesn't matter.

[00:28:09] Do you automatically blend or merge with other people's positive energy, but get distressed when you are around negativity, anger, and conflict? It's not a, hey, you know what, let's sit down and talk about it. It's a total withdrawal from the conflict. I don't even want any part of it. If I just get away from it, it'll resolve itself.

[00:28:27] Here's the secret. But, that's their reaction. Now, in 8's reaction to conflict is, like, power up, let's go. Strangely enough, 8's view conflict as a form of intimacy. Uh, I don't have the time to break that down. Um, so see me afterwards and I'll attempt to explain the weirdness. Do people find you easy to approach and non judgmental in almost all circumstances?

[00:28:52] And then, do you have great difficulty expressing your opinions, particularly if they may be controversial in some way? One of my favorite [00:29:00] sayings that, um, brought some clarity is, Nines, uh, can see everyone else's point of view easier than they can see their own. for example, in my wife's case, you know, just, Where do you want to go eat?

[00:29:11] Or what do you want to do with the kids? Or something like that. If she would say, I don't know. I was like, well you can just, just be honest. I don't know. She genuinely did not know her own perspective on the situation. She was asleep to it. And that's part of her work to do, such as mine, is to not be belligerent towards her when she answers me that way.

[00:29:36] The strict perfectionist. Now these people make phenomenal engineers. You want a one working on your building. Um, I know you're building a new space, so just, you might want to do a typing thing with like, Hey, can we just make sure a few of you are ones? Yeah, conscientious, perfectionist, critical, controlled.

[00:29:56] Their core belief is I must be perfect in order [00:30:00] to have value. I must not make mistakes. Their worth is tied to their performance and, and their perfectionism. Which is, is a really, uh, uh, torturous existence. Now, they can be very, very principled. Uh, these, these people can, are full of integrity, and they believe, like, this is the right thing to do, so we're gonna go do this, and it's also maybe the, the most perfect way to do something.

[00:30:27] I worked with somebody in ministry who was like that. He was brilliant, he also happened to be an engineer, brilliant, gifted, Loved the Lord, loved people, but because he came across this way, it, it was difficult for people to follow him because they felt like nothing was ever good enough. Something for which I've been accused of as well, but it, it was a struggle for him.

[00:30:50] He does have one of my favorite quotes of all time because he tried to introduce policy, procedure, steps. Um, processes. And he said, [00:31:00] for whatever reason, inside of a, of a church, and I think it can go for non profits as well, is when you hand someone a process to act like you just handed them a handbook on how to go to hell.

[00:31:10] Um, and that stuck with me because I keep running into it over and over again.

[00:31:15] So, you might, heh, I felt like I was about to turn into Jeff Foxworthy, you might be a redneck if, um, you might be a one if you have an inner voice akin to a tape recorder in your head that continuously criticizes you, and this would be like 90 percent more of the time. We all have a little bit of an internal critic, but the ones have a very distinctive one, so much so that a lot of them have named it so they can separate it from their own thoughts.

[00:31:41] Like, no, no, no, that's the internal critic. That's, that's, that's my roommate upstairs, as a friend of mine, who's a one, called it. Some people have actually given it names. Like, that's Aunt Linda, just running her mouth again, being critical. You know, and, and we as believers need to understand that anything that [00:32:00] isn't loving is not from God.

[00:32:03] Therefore, it can be a thought that we sort, categorize, and we can dismiss as, well, that's not something I'm taking on as part of my identity. You have a constant need for self improvement while knowing no one will ever be perfect, not even you. It's a striving. You know that, that engine, that thing that won't leave you alone?

[00:32:21] Okay, this wasn't, you may have done it the best anyone's ever done it, but it's not good enough because it didn't achieve your standard and image of perfection. You have a very hard time relaxing, having fun, and getting away from your responsibilities, even when you're on vacation. Or do you make vacations not fun because you've planned every second of the vacation as well, right?

[00:32:45] And people come back saying, I need a vacation from this vacation, and you're not invited. Twos. Love twos. A great friend and mentor of mine is uh, is an Enneagram Two, the considerate helper. there's a great teacher, she's [00:33:00] here in the Dallas area, like one of the foremost experts on the Enneagram.

[00:33:03] part of life in the Trinity ministry. She's called the Enneagram Godmother, um, which is phenomenal. But she, she's a two. But she talks about how being raised in, um, Christian community here in the South, a lot of women are, uh, sort of shoehorned and taught to be twos. Which is really interesting, so that when they break out, it, uh, from that personality style, it actually can create quite a lot of conflict.

[00:33:30] Um, same thing, like, eight women have a really hard time in our society. They get called all sorts of names because they're, they're very strong, very confident. Things that if a man were that way, would say, oh yeah, that's great leadership. But they get called a certain word, um, when they come across that way.

[00:33:47] Right? So some of these things start playing into, uh, the social contracts that we have in our society. Particularly here in the West and in the U. S. And I'm sure that there's some things even across the pond that you could speak [00:34:00] to as well. You might be a two if, I'm gonna stick with that. That's, that's gonna, that just brings me back to a happy moment in my childhood is listening to Jeff Foxworthy.

[00:34:09] Do you intuitively know what someone else needs? And let me add this, before they do, or better than they do, like, twos are freaky in their superpower here. And each number has their own superpower. But they have a hard time articulating your own needs. I know what everybody else needs. I wanna, I wanna be busy, I wanna take care of you, I wanna take care of you, I wanna take care of you, I wanna meet, I actually know, individually, they're great, like, one to one people just meeting these needs all over the place.

[00:34:36] But they're not quite sure what they need and they also get really uncomfortable when other people try to meet their needs until they do their work and become healthier.

[00:34:46] If you're completely honest, do you believe that you can get almost anyone to like you if you really want to? Their, their great, uh, vice is pride. They want you to be doing well and they want to be the reason [00:35:00] why.

[00:35:00] Threes typically make great salespeople do you . do the things you do to impress others so that they will value and respect you? Inside, they are thinking, I must be successful and I must be productive. They will squeeze every second out of every day to be productive.

[00:35:14] And they also to some extent, want it to look effortless and their great success. Um, I've heard some people suggest that a lot of megachurch pastors happen to be threes. They tend to, they can read a room of people, I'm talking thousands of people in real time, and adjust what they are saying dynamically.

[00:35:39] It, my, my lead pastor happens to be a three. And it is, just, sometimes I'm mad because I speak for a living too, And he can just sit up in front of hundreds or thousands of people and, and just like, he's reading it and he's shifting it and it's just connecting with the group and I'm like, How do you do that?

[00:35:57] He goes, I have no idea. [00:36:00] Fours, intense creatives. Um, I must be authentic, I must go deep. These people tend towards the arts. Um, they love being sad. Uh, which is a sad, weird thing to say, but they love melancholy. See, do you think of melancholy as a pleasurable experience? Also, fours will experience a range of emotions in about an hour that most of us would experience in a week or a month.

[00:36:29] They are And it's not necessarily a bad thing. You could say, well, that makes them unstable. But they are so attuned to emotions. The full spectrum that some of us may struggle to get access to. Five's the quiet specialist. I must understand it. I must conserve my resources. They are just consuming vast amounts of knowledge.

[00:36:53] They are just, and not only that, but they view it, that they need to get [00:37:00] more in order to be safe. More knowledge equals more safety. Sharing that knowledge actually makes them feel unsafe because they've had to give energy and resources to someone else. They want to make sense of the world. They want to avoid dependence and they pursue knowledge pretty much at all costs.

[00:37:19] Do you observe life rather than being fully engaged in it? And some, uh, I've also seen a title of, uh, Observer or Investigator.

[00:37:29] Sixes. Some, a lot of people, a lot of Enneagram teachers, uh, more tenured, will say that there are more sixes in the world than any other number. some have said that the U. S. had a predominantly three culture for the longest time, and we've transitioned to a six culture. Sixes deal with fear in a really deep and meaningful way.

[00:37:49] I must be vigilant. I must be responsible. This is why, in an election year, you hear so many candidates leverage fear [00:38:00] of what happens if you elect the other guy or gal. We're going to hell in a handbasket if you elect them. It's all gonna be wonderful if you elect me. No matter where your party lines stand or who is coming to mind for you, they all do it.

[00:38:17] They all lean into fear.

[00:38:19] Do you constantly anticipate multiple scenarios, thinking about what could go wrong, and trying to plan so it will not occur? Now, my wife has a touch of the six, and nines are connected to six, and I won't go into that, but, but there are some connecting lines throughout the Enneagram. Um, every time she walks into a parking lot, she is thinking about who could step out behind what car or something, and what exactly she's going to do to counteract that.

[00:38:45] And I was like, you have got to chill out. Um, and she's like, no, like, just, my brain goes that way, and I was like, Eventually I said, alright, well that's probably smart, like I'll see some negative thing, like a woman was kidnapped in a parking lot or something, and I'll go, [00:39:00] Okay, yeah, so maybe you should think that way.

[00:39:02] But, they're very, very loyal. These are great risk managers. They are people who can tell you what could go wrong. They're not great in the brainstorming phase of things. They're more howl than wow. So, kick them out of the brainstorming meeting, bring them in later, to make sure you didn't miss anything.

[00:39:22] Sevens! You'll jump like Mario. That's how you'll recognize them. Uh, optimistic, spontaneous. Now these people love planning things. It's all about the excitement of planning. You ever planned a vacation and the planning of the vacation was actually maybe a little bit more exciting than the actual vacation itself?

[00:39:40] That's how these people feel about everything. So as soon as they're done planning, when it's time for the thing to happen, they move on. They're like, I'm going to go play in the next thing, because that's exciting. These people also will run from feeling deep, like, troubling emotions. They live in a half range.

[00:39:58] They will reframe stuff in a [00:40:00] heartbeat. Oh, I found the silver lining. I found the silver lining. So much so that they'll actually avoid something that they need to sit in for a little while and really wrestle with. Do you avoid pain or discomfort whenever possible? Do you continuously seek new and stimulating people?

[00:40:16] Like, they can be the life of the party. But it can go into excess because I deserve what I want and I must have freedom. Do not lock these people down if you, especially an immature one, because they will find a way out to keep their options open and they'll seem flighty and non committal. Healthy ones can understand they appreciate their freedom, but they can also make peace with, uh, locking in.

[00:40:39] So what do we end up with? What do we, where do we go from here? Well, we have this ideal version of ourselves. Eights, you know, I want to see myself as high capacity. Fives may want to see themselves as being this wise individual. Ones are just the perfect picture of goodness. But we have this. It's not coming from the right place.

[00:40:59] We create this [00:41:00] image. That image is being run by a fear, though, below the surface. I want to be can do high capacity because I want to avoid being vulnerable. I want to be successful because I fear being insignificant and useless.

[00:41:19] I don't want to be alone in a threatening world, so I'm going to be vigilant and calculate for every single thing that might or could happen. So, when we're run by our core fears, our defense mechanisms kick in automatically. Like, we're not even aware of them. And this is one of the greatest gifts that the Enneagram gave me, is it allowed me to catch these things closer and closer to real time. I will deny them in any pain. Like, I have torn hamstring.

[00:41:48] It's fine. I can still run on it. I'll get the doctor to make sure that I won't do any permanent damage. Like, I'm not afraid. You're just, you're, you're the one who's, like, just miscalculating. [00:42:00] Uh, repression. No, no, I'm, I'm not upset. What, what could I be upset about? Let me numb out. Let me just watch, you know, five to ten episodes at a time of my favorite show.

[00:42:16] Let me just doom scroll on a social media platform. We end up with these negative characteristics. Lethargy, anger, pride, deceit, envy, avarice, fear, gluttony, lust. Those defense mechanisms create. These characteristics. This is us at our worst.

[00:42:37] We end up with these distorted principles. I told you I, I couldn't, I put the barbed wire up. I had a distorted principle of individualism. I'm, I'm on my own. I'm by myself. No one controls me. I'm good. You can be so pragmatic that you can't imagine doing something a little bit different. Let's not [00:43:00] color outside the lines.

[00:43:02] These are negative expressions. of what ends up being a good motivation. Because we're triggered by these defense mechanisms, these things get activated, and then we don't show up in a healthy way for, for ourselves, our families, our teams, our, our organizations. what are some growth strategies? I'm gonna give you some practical ones and, uh, examples.

[00:43:25] So, if you feel like you identified more as a Type 8, You know, excessive control intensity would be your negative characteristics. You want to embrace vulnerability. Your practice is to let go of control. Trusting others. An example? Confide in a colleague or a friend about a challenge you're going through.

[00:43:43] I gotta be honest, that's hard for me. But I have to practice it and it helps me grow in other ways. If type 9 was more your flavor, avoidance and disengagement. You've got to engage fully in life. So set some small actionable goals. Move into [00:44:00] action. Make one decision promptly without deferring it. Just decide it, do it.

[00:44:04] For me, that's nothing. For a nine, that, that, that's like lifting a boulder.

[00:44:11] Resentment towards imperfection is a negative characteristic. You gotta learn to accept it. How can you cultivate self compassion? Now, do we all need self compassion? Yes, but some things are more important to other, to types than others. Remind yourself daily that excellence does not require perfection. I don't know.

[00:44:27] Tape it up on the mirror. Listen to a meditation. Have a friend call and yell at you about it. I don't know. Whatever works for you. But, but make movement towards that. Are more feeling centered people the twos, threes, and fours? Twos, over identifying. They're a positive characteristic. They need to serve without seeking validation.

[00:44:47] Set boundaries. Schedule 15 minutes. Just 15 minutes of me time. Do something for you. Our competitive achiever friends, they'll over identify with success. They need to embrace authenticity instead of putting up this mask [00:45:00] of, Oh, I am just the most awesome thing since sliced bread. I don't know why sliced bread is the standard of amazingness.

[00:45:06] It I don't it is. But we'll keep using it until someone comes up with something better. Reflect on on whether or not your actions actually align. They can be accused of being the shapeshifter chameleon folk. And it's like, I don't actually know if I know the real you. Spend five minutes a day journaling about what truly matters to you.

[00:45:28] Get honest. If you can't be honest with yourself, how are you going to be honest with someone else? The fours longing for what others have embraced self acceptance, practice gratitude, write down three things you appreciate yourself each day. And finally, our thinking centered folk, the five, six, and seven, the five was more your style.

[00:45:47] You're hoarding resources and knowledge. Positive characteristic is sharing freely. Engage with others and share your knowledge. Share one insight or one piece of knowledge. Maybe something from your, uh, a recent book or a podcast or something that really [00:46:00] fascinated you and, and gave you, connected two different ideas for you.

[00:46:04] Share that and see that the world didn't collapse. Six, you gotta trust in the stability. So can you reflect on past successes? And this is big when we start thinking about it in terms of our faith, is can we reflect back on the faithfulness of God in circumstances? I tell ya, I struggle with this. I'm not a dominant six, but I struggle with it.

[00:46:25] Finally, sevens, Overindulgent in pleasure. They need to find contentment. Embrace routine and mindfulness. Start your day with a five minute mindfulness exercise.

[00:46:34] in five minutes, you're like, whatever, I pray for 30 minutes, three hours, whatever. I was translated in the spirit. But for them, that five minutes is going to feel like an eternity. And, but if they lean into it, they're going to find themselves more present and stable and okay. Takeaways. Your personality, your type may have helped you survive, but it will not [00:47:00] help you thrive.

[00:47:02] As Marshall Goldsmith famously said. What got you here won't get you there. So whether you're on a faith journey, a business journey, a non profit journey, whatever it may be, the things that got you to this place may not be evil, but they probably won't serve you very well if you continue. But it's your choice on whether or not you want to grow this way.

[00:47:23] And growth is hard. The Enneagram shows you the box you're in and how to get out. So did you start to find what box you might be in? And a strategy to start practicing even today? to get out of that box. And also that growing your EQ, those internal and external competencies, has been proven to produce a measurable increase in performance.

[00:47:50] And this is across multiple studies. You can go look those up.

[00:47:53] Three step process. Identify your type. There's the questionnaire on there that's simple. [00:48:00] QR code. It's at the bottom of the page one as well. that one is a business one. If you want a personal one, I have one. It's a little smaller. It's a basic report. There's also one for couples and sweet Jesus. I wish I had done that about 12 years ago.

[00:48:14] My wife and I, in May, just passed 15 years of marriage and I, and when we took the couples one last fall, I was like, this just perfectly articulates all of the huge arguments and potholes and everything else. Now, would we still have stumbled through some of them? Yeah, but we would have gotten through it a lot faster.

[00:48:34] Develop a growth plan, whether it's through that report giving you some development exercises, which it does, and I love that, uh, about that particular report, or you just take one of the ones that's on your sheet there on the back on page four. Finally, engage in continuous learning. I am starting a community, and there are many, but I'm starting one, um, for people who want to engage and learn.

[00:48:56] And tools and training like this, organizational [00:49:00] development, team development, other things that would complement what I've shared here today. So if that's something that you're interested in, please let me know. But it is going to be a hybrid of non profit and for profit leaders. Basically, those who share more of a missional attitude and heart, regardless of your tax status, because that's all, um, your, you know, that separates us.

[00:49:21] There really are a lot of highs and lows in leadership. There's a lot of people who are moving to burnout. 50 percent of executives are being kicked out of organizations if they weren't the founder within the first 18 months because of values misalignment, poor performance, they can't capture the culture of the people and bring them into a unified team.

[00:49:41] I want to fight against that, but we can't do it alone. And it can't just be me alone. So if we band together, I think that we can create a rising tide that lifts all ships. So let me know if that's something you're interested in. It's in the works. It's coming soon. There's the link.

[00:49:56] Again, you can see some of the stuff. You can get a communication style, [00:50:00] dealing with conflict, decision making, leadership, and management. Giving and receiving feedback. What if you had a personalized guide for how you can effectively give feedback? But also you could share with someone else to this is how I'm best going to receive your feedback.

[00:50:13] So could you frame it this way to make sure I'm getting the most out of what you're trying to share? Because I value what you have to say. And if you do engage in any sort of coaching, you can see how you might self sabotage that relationship. And that's always fun. And also team influence, like the four stages of, of team development and things like that.

[00:50:32] Yes. You in the back

[00:50:40] Mm-hmm . Mentioned this is May got you to be where? Stay there. I love that. What would you say? I feel like I'm both a seven. I definitely a seven, a wing of an eight, but I also have a little bit of that free tendencies in there as well. Mm-hmm . [00:51:00] On a hodgepodge of emotion happening here, what would you say to get to that, that next step by leaving those.

[00:51:07] Gotcha. So for, for those online and I couldn't hear, it's like, uh, Reagan said he's a seven strong, eight wing. I won't, I'll, I can get into wings on another time. Feels like he's a little bit of a three. How, if you realize that, how do you take the next step? Uh, number one, we're all nine types. We just happen to have one that's dominant.

[00:51:29] The other thing is three sevens and eights actually, uh, share a grouping. There's multiple ways that the numbers get grouped. Based on, um, centers of, uh, expression, intelligence. Um, this one is called stances, and so, they're the aggressive stance. Um, which means that their initial, um, their initial action to get what they want is, uh, or, or when they don't, is to move against people.

[00:51:58] Um, so, there's a [00:52:00] lot of energy, these people live in the future. Um, I would say your next step at one is a seven is, I mean, you got the five minutes of reflection. Um, is what are, what are things currently or from the past that you've reframed as a positive, but you've done so by discounting the negative instead of really sitting in it?

[00:52:22] What things are happening? That keep you from being fully present where you are right now. Now I have to imagine you're sort of being fed by that by live production live production forces you to be in the moment It's one of the reasons why I like it because I tell people my body is here But the rest of me is like two weeks two months two years into the future Um, you might have to knock on my head to bring me back down here.

[00:52:45] Um, so doing things like, um, live production, um, high intensity workouts has been one that's been really grounding for me, um, to be fully present. So I would find things that bring you into the now and [00:53:00] what could help you process Maybe potentially painful things from the past or the current, um, that you're not fully sitting in.

[00:53:11] Those would be my recommendations for, for initial steps. That was a great question.