How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Evita Morin [00:00:00]:
I think there needs to be more conversation about just survivors of and overcomers of and the ability to bring that as a strength of resilience that other people who aren't maybe able to go there don't have. I think it's a superpower in a lot of ways.

Kenny Lange [00:00:22]:
You welcome to the how leaders think podcast, the show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I am your host, Kenny Lang, and with me today is the Evita Morin. She is the CEO of Rise Recovery, which is an awesome place, although I may be biased. And her civic and nonprofit career spans the front lines of civil service, housing, education, reentry and substance use recovery. So she knows what she's talking about. She is a San Antonio native. She grew up throughout urban and rural Texas before attending undergraduate schools at Columbia in New York. And then she is very passionate about her community, and I can attest to that.

Kenny Lange [00:01:05]:
She also proudly serves as a board member of the master's leadership program of Greater San Antonio, the Blood and Tissue foundation, and she is the recipient of recognition by San Antonio Woman magazine as San Antonio's role model. Wow. So everybody just look up to her and your life will be better. And she was also listed on San Antonio business journals, 40 under 40 and NASW's Alamo Region Social Worker of the year. She has two kiddos, and she loves camping with her family across Texas. Welcome to the show, Evita.

Evita Morin [00:01:41]:
So glad to be here. Thanks for having me today.

Kenny Lange [00:01:44]:
I am excited that you're here. Full disclosure, Evita is a client. But as everybody just heard, your resume is phenomenal. You're making a difference left and right, and people are acknowledging that. And I know you're not in it for the accolades, but I think you have a lot to teach us. And so, as we start every episode, what is on your mind?

Evita Morin [00:02:10]:
Gosh, what is on my mind these days? Having a compass and being vulnerable are on my.

Kenny Lange [00:02:21]:
Mean, I feel vulnerable in the woods, mostly because I can get turned around. I don't know where I am. I mean, I'm in East Texas. There's a lot of woods around here.

Evita Morin [00:02:30]:
You're right, you're in a woods area.

Kenny Lange [00:02:33]:
So expound on that. What are you seeing in the linkage between having a compass and being vulnerable?

Evita Morin [00:02:40]:
I think those are just big energies for me. As we close the end of the year, one is for the compass. We could talk a little bit about this later, but I guide myself through a weekly, sort of a ritual of some introspection, some questions that I ask myself, that set my week that I'm a spiritual person. And so it is my spiritual time at the beginning of every week that helps guide the work that I do and the service that I give to community and then vulnerability. I work in recovery and I've been working in this field for eight years, almost nine now. And so it was only in the last couple of weeks that I was really able to share my own recovery story to a room full of about 100 people in treatment. And I can't tell you for someone who for the last two decades has been sort of on the forefront. And I was an acting major for a part of my college career.

Evita Morin [00:03:43]:
I'm on tv a lot. I present a lot. Nothing was more terrifying to me than presenting my life story and my recovery story to those participants in treatment. And I almost couldn't do it and I haven't experienced that in a long time. So it was amazing. A very humbling experience.

Kenny Lange [00:04:01]:
Yeah. Well, obviously when you talk about going through a journey, which I know is a commonly used word, you and your team use it quite a bit. When you're talking about what the kids that you're serving are going through, like it's part of their journey and part of their story, how did you come to find a compass that could guide you through that? Right, because we all have chaotic lives at times. Sometimes it's more than others. Certainly being a leader does not come without a certain measure of chaos. And you can feel kind of tossed by the wind. And not everybody really finds a way to have that compass to help them navigate through it. What led you to develop that? Or how did you come across the tools you needed to make your compass?

Evita Morin [00:04:58]:
Well, I think a lot of us start with the tools that are already readily available to us. People journal, they use planners, they use their calendar, and those are all very reactive. I found and then I joined a group for a while, executive coaching group called C twelve, which you may be familiar with. And so there's a period of time that I was there and that's when they introduced me to this sort of wheel concept where you sort of, in a month or so, evaluate how your life has been in your health, financially, with your family, things like that. And it really kind of blew my mind as a perspective, our way of doing, thinking about how things have been in preparation for how you want them to be. And I hadn't really thought that way. And so that's how it started. It has evolved every year I identify just a little bit more refinement to the questions I ask.

Evita Morin [00:05:50]:
And instead of using preexisting stuff, I actually now create my own. And it's not a planner, it's not a journal. It's kind of something in between. And it's. I call it a compass because it does help set my week. And so there are a series of questions, and it's not a lot. It doesn't take me more than maybe ten or 15 minutes to get through it, but then it just kind of sets my day and then the days following until I get to the weekend. And it influences the decisions that I make.

Evita Morin [00:06:16]:
And so I find that very helpful in just trying to solve the problems that are in front of us without the answers. Are there a lot of times in our psyche and in our relationships, and we're just not thinking in that way?

Kenny Lange [00:06:33]:
Yeah, that's great. I love having some questions that you can answer. Sometimes reading them on a page almost feels like somebody else asking you the question. I tell people I don't like the fact that I can't answer my own questions. So if you were to ask me a question, I would give you a better answer than I would give myself if I asked it. And sometimes having that written down, I have it somewhere. It's on my desk. But the clarity field guide and what you said reminded me of the subtitle to it, which is, it's the answers no one else can give you.

Kenny Lange [00:07:10]:
And it's that same thing of, like, you have the answers within, but sometimes it takes that intentional pausing and answering some questions and digging and sort of interrogating your own reality. Right?

Evita Morin [00:07:22]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:07:23]:
So within that, what I hear you say is, it sounds like some of those questions have led you into vulnerable moments, or how are you seeing the connection between, like, I've got this compass, I'm answering these questions, I'm going in this direction. How does vulnerability play its part in that for you on a regular basis?

Evita Morin [00:07:45]:
Yeah, I think your compass, when I think of the word compass, because that's really what it boils down to for me. Does your inner align with your outer? And that alignment is not. I mean, for a lot of people, who they are at the workplace is very different than who they are in their personal lives, and what they present is different than what they present in their personal professional. And I got to, as a social worker, I got to experience that and I got to experience it personally, and I got to observe it around me where I may want the very best for someone in front of me. But am I taking care of myself or I want this person to be free from family violence and abuse. But then I come home to a violent and abusive home. And those are the things that were, and this is 20 years of profession going through these kinds of questions. And I started to see more than ever that alignment needing to happen when I got into the work of recovery.

Evita Morin [00:08:49]:
And so what's so different about that is that as a social worker, as a provider of helping services, I use my degree, I use my license, my written pieces of paper and my expertise. And then when I would come home, I wasn't well, I wasn't taking care of myself the way that I could be. But then I learned about people, the peer coaching field, and these are people in recovery, healthy people in recovery, and their transparency about their journey and their willingness to acknowledge an area of their life that they struggled with, that they are now recovering from and then using that as their strength to carry forward. I want to apply that to all of my life and I want to be like that. I want to live that way. I was very influenced in the last eight years by the people that I get to work with, that I get to support and have become that myself and they have made me a better person. Just in reflecting how acknowledging your own journey can make you a stronger leader, a stronger human being and a more.

Kenny Lange [00:09:57]:
Purposeful and compass driven one, I think that's fantastic. Obviously I'm learning some things about you during our conversation that I didn't know, which are great, just some more of the backstory. But that is a distinction about rise. Recovery is providing. The people providing services are in recovery themselves. Right? Like they've walked through the journey. There are several steps ahead of the kids and the people that they work with. Aside from recovery from addictive substances, where else are you seeing that sort of model of recovery applying to help you grow? Because obviously you mentioned like c twelve, there's vistage, there's some other peer groups, but where else are you finding value in that? Because we talk a lot in the system and soul community about you need a coach, a peer group and a framework.

Kenny Lange [00:11:01]:
And that's what most successful leaders have, a combination of those. It sounds like the peer group side of things has really been something that you've discovered as an immense strength, which, truth be told, I don't hear from a lot of people.

Evita Morin [00:11:17]:
Yeah, and that's part of why vulnerability is such a sort of a hot topic for me right now, because I am used to being the kind of leader that knows how to or has been trained and learned how to present well and how to look good on paper and achieve the things and have the degrees. And I am just now learning at 40, how to also be a vulnerable leader and how to also own my own journey, not just the highlights, but the low lights that made some of those highlights possible. And to give them credit where it's due. And I think that at the end of the day, I am not so different than not. I mean, being a person in recovery just means that you're open about your recovery. That doesn't make you different than any other human who is also recovering from so many things in life. And so we're all overcoming something. We're all challenging or trying to get through something that's just part of life.

Evita Morin [00:12:18]:
And so I want to be much more transparent about that in a thoughtful way and in a way that helps me grow. And so this was a huge challenge for me. And I had no idea what a challenge it would have been until I walked across at that podium and I walked right back. I just couldn't do it. It blew my mind how hard it was. And so it just makes me wonder how hard it must be for everyone else when I live and breathe this stuff every day. And it's still hard for me.

Kenny Lange [00:12:46]:
Right. I think you're hitting on something important there, because you do work in a space that almost forces you to be vulnerable, more so than other, say, professions or work environments. And in your career, as you've come across other leaders, a lot of them in probably a nonprofit space, but others in the for profit space, what's the thinking around vulnerability from most leaders you're coming across? I mean, you yourself, I have a laundry list here of all the awards, and like you said, present well, achieve, make those things happen, and it takes nothing away from those. But you're really citing, think as a transformative part of your leadership. And you did all those things, maybe even prior leading up to this discovery. What are you seeing and hearing in the marketplace around leaders being vulnerable? Or is it just something that's being avoided and not talked about at all?

Evita Morin [00:13:49]:
I think it's being talked about. I think it's a lot harder to apply. I think one of the benefits of being in an environment where people are more open and vulnerable about what brought them here, a recovery story or a story of resilience implies that you are stronger. Now, obviously, we're not trying to create an environment where we're all raising our hand about our current illnesses and defects and issues. There's a time and place for that. But when you have developed resilience and strength and are proud of that. And you've overcome some things or in recovery from things that should be safe to talk about. And I think it's becoming safer.

Evita Morin [00:14:35]:
Obviously, mental health is a very hot topic right now and there's a lot of conversation around it in all industries, I think, and helping people connect to resources are available, but I think there needs to be more conversation about just survivors of and overcomers of and the ability to bring that as a strength of resilience that other people who aren't maybe able to go there don't have. I think it's a superpower in a lot of ways.

Kenny Lange [00:15:06]:
Yeah. It's one of the things in my experience that you don't realize until you're on the other side of. Right. Like it is a bit of a leap of faith to step out, be vulnerable, share this thing that maybe you've struggled with is a challenge for you, whatever it is. Especially, I think, if it's something you've self selected into. Right. And then there's a choice. Truly, there are victims and people that have had horrible things done to them.

Kenny Lange [00:15:35]:
But I think that there's something different when you've maybe been an active participant in the thing that you're in recovery from. And I wonder if in linking your comments about vulnerability, but also being taught as a leader at a really prestigious school and you're part of different programs, how do we present well, how do we look good? How do we present in a way that gives confidence to people in us and our cause and our mission or our abilities, what form of thinking or pattern of thinking, in your opinion, keeps people from talking about those areas of whether it's recovery or struggle or weakness, just keeps them from being truly vulnerable. Because I do think some people give lip service to it. And maybe that's just me being cynical.

Evita Morin [00:16:33]:
That's true.

Kenny Lange [00:16:34]:
But what pattern of thinking is keeping people from doing that, given that you're being open about it? Like you said, there are some people who are raising this quite loudly. I mean, Brene Brown's the loudest voice in vulnerability, but for all of the influence she has, she's just one voice. And some people can say, well, that's nice for her. So what's keeping people from stepping up to their version of the podium?

Evita Morin [00:17:03]:
I think a lot of it is that self reflection and that willingness to question whether you're the same person inside and outside of your work life. I think those are two to me, two big areas that if I am working on becoming the best version of myself that I can be, then that makes me a better employee, that makes me a better leader. It doesn't just make me a better person at home. It doesn't just make me a better person in my personal life. And so that willingness to challenge and to reflect on where we are, I think helps us gain that courage to start having that. You need to have that conversation with yourself first before you can have it with anybody else. We're not asking for people to share their sob stories. This is about sharing your resilience story.

Evita Morin [00:17:50]:
And so you need to be in a place of actual health and stability to be able to do that. And I think we're in a world where people are still very much in the middle of that struggle, and there's a time and place for that. And I don't know that that's at the helm or at the podium with your staff, but I do think that when you do gain some control and some tools and some introspection and some recovery, that it is very beneficial to share with your team and to share in an appropriate space that level of vulnerability. But you have to be ready for that. And I think a lot of people.

Kenny Lange [00:18:27]:
Are still working, right. We're all works in progress. Or as a favorite pastor of mine says, I'm not dead, God's not done. But I think what I hear you saying, according to the great philosopher Michael Jackson, I'm starting with the man in the mirror and asking him to we'll sing it after the show. That'll be the bonus content. I love what you said, that you got to have that conversation with yourself and you have to be ready for it, because being the same on the inside as you are outside sort of speaks to integrity, right?

Evita Morin [00:19:11]:
Yes.

Kenny Lange [00:19:17]:
I think if that's an initial step that someone can be looking at, that can be really daunting, that could be really scary. And sometimes they can't see what they can't see. Like they're called blind spots for a reason.

Evita Morin [00:19:35]:
Right.

Kenny Lange [00:19:36]:
I'm wondering if this is where the peer group was helpful for you in being able to spot those things, speak into those things, to inform that conversation and reflection with yourself. Was that something that happened or connected?

Evita Morin [00:19:53]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think hearing from people who. And that's the other thing, though I am the leader of this organization, I am in no way an expert on recovery, certainly not my own recovery. I still feel very new, and I even felt ridiculous talking to a bunch of people who are in treatment because there are plenty of people with 30 years of recovery and black belt and twelve step programming and full of wisdom. And I instill a newbie, but that doesn't make the story worth telling and doesn't make it not invaluable. It makes it valuable to someone. And so that being said, I think the peer groups are having. For instance, I meet regularly with a group of other professionals in addiction services who are at a leadership level.

Evita Morin [00:20:41]:
And many of us, though not all of us, are in recovery of some kind. And we meet just to process how it's going in our lives, personal, professional, otherwise. And it's a wonderful experience to be around other people in the field who meet once a week, have this closed group and then go off and we do our thing and we network in other ways outside of that. So I do think it's very valuable to have a group of people that you can with like minds that you can share your vulnerability with as a first point and then have those mentors who are pointing out things that you may not want to hear personally and professionally, having those dollars in your life.

Kenny Lange [00:21:26]:
Yeah, they can be. I saw someone post online, it was rudely accurate.

Evita Morin [00:21:33]:
I love that. Yes, rudely accurate.

Kenny Lange [00:21:36]:
I love what you said, that you're sharing these things like what brought the group together sounds like a shared professional component or characteristic place in life, but you're sharing in the personal and you're really engaging the whole person.

Evita Morin [00:21:57]:
That's what I'm looking for in my work. That's what I'm looking for in my life, a way to engage the whole person and to respect the whole person. And I think you can do that in a way that is still professional and still beneficial to the work that you're doing without it becoming selfish or obsolete.

Kenny Lange [00:22:22]:
Let's say somebody's listening and they're like, hey, this is great. Yeah, sure. We're recording this near the end of the year. When this drops, it may be further on in the beginning of the next year, but I've noticed and this is something. So I'm processing out loud too, free therapy. But the idea of, yeah, it's end of year, we're going to do an annual session or I'm just going to get away for a few days and write and journal and think. And they make it a one time event versus maybe a daily or weekly practice from your own practice and then maybe the practices of others that you happen to know. What are some examples that you have seen or some thought processes on basically diving into yourself?

Evita Morin [00:23:23]:
Yeah, I think one of our local foundations is supporting a number of nonprofits, including mine, further ceos to experience soul care, whatever that means. And that could mean a lot of things, but it's sort of an experimental cohort that is asking that question. And so the belief is that if you have a healthy CEO of a business, then you have a healthy business. And I appreciate that value. And so they're asking us all to introspect about that. And I think obviously, in the way that you want to bring the whole person to, you want to bring your whole self to the world, you need to also work on your whole self. And so some of the practices that I think instead of looking like at the end of the year, at the beginning of the year, a lot of us start to establish new goals and things like that. But instead of I want to exercise twelve times a month, what is the purpose of that? And so for me, some things that have really I've woken up to is I just turned 40 this past year.

Evita Morin [00:24:34]:
I'll be 41 in January. Exactly. Go 40. But it really made me think about my desire to be strong while I have children, while I'm still in that period of time where I want to play with them. And technically I'm headed toward a decline. If I don't do something, it's an hour never, and then experiencing joy and play. Talk about vulnerability. I am at a point in my life where I was not the kid who was able to be a kid.

Evita Morin [00:25:04]:
I had to grow up very quickly. And so using my children's joy and play to tap into my own has been very important to me. And that has sort of snowballed into its own. Well, if I want to do these fun things, I need to be stronger to do them. So now I've got different purposes for working out. It is not for the sake of hitting twelve at the end of a month, you know what I mean? And so I think trying to figure out what is the joy you want to find in your life as a result of these things you're doing is really important. And I'm practicing some new things. I'm going to try some quarterly goal setting based on Vistage's feedback.

Evita Morin [00:25:43]:
But what I'm also realizing, and this may just be for people in our age bracket, but I think the average lifespan of an american woman at this point is like in the 73 or something, essentially, I've got less than 40 years left if I live in the average lifespan. And so trying to look in the perspective, I know it's getting deep.

Kenny Lange [00:26:11]:
I was thinking about that too. I got a birthday coming up and I'm like, oh, man, am I on the back half? What is happening?

Evita Morin [00:26:17]:
I know we're on the back half.

Kenny Lange [00:26:20]:
Gosh, you all pray for us.

Evita Morin [00:26:23]:
I know, but it's 77. That's what it was, 77. I'm already hitting that second half. I'm past that second half. So I have x amount of years left. How important? For instance, I have a master's degree. Should I, shouldn't I, with the PhD? And so I think about, well, if I only have 30 something years left, what is that really going to do for me at this point in my life? And so it's helping me filter decisions differently and make where I invest my time, especially large chunks of my time, much more clear, because our time is finite on this earth. And I was just reading a book on meditation, and one of the chapters was, we're all going to die.

Evita Morin [00:27:07]:
Another happy thought. This gives you some introspection.

Kenny Lange [00:27:12]:
Yeah, we're all going to die. That's the big takeaway. I think that's probably going to be on the title of the podcast episode. It apparently makes you happy, and we'll make a t shirt about it. No, it's interesting because you've said several things that come back to the notion of reverse engineering. Right. If you're a Stephen Covey fan, begin with the end in mind. There's a guy, he's a business marketing thought leader, Alex Hermosi and I Binge podcast.

Kenny Lange [00:27:54]:
Like, I'll find somebody and I'll binge a bunch of their content. But one thing he said in a few interviews is he thinks about his 82 year old self. And I love that. What would need to be true now for him to be that version? Or would his 82 year old self be proud of what he did? And so it's almost like, again, it's a reflective thing. He goes, I will literally have conversations. And he showed, it's in like a Google Doc of chatting back and forth. And he'll kind of, like, he'll say his thing and then he'll think, what would 82 year old me reply to this inquiry or this thought and write it out back and forth as a way to process, to say, okay, I'm reverse engineering into that life because that's where I want to end up. I do think so many people, especially when it moves, life does come at you quickly, especially your birthdays, but you can be so focused on just doing the next right thing.

Kenny Lange [00:29:00]:
And I think that there's value there. But if it's not aligning up to where ultimately, do I want to end up? And the difference I want to make, the person I want to be, the things I want to achieve. And I know some people have a weird relationship with the word legacy, but what is going to be remembered about me when I'm gone, right?

Evita Morin [00:29:23]:
Absolutely. I think it's also helping discern what maybe are social pressures and what is it that you really want out of the next few years of your life. I go back to that whole don't I get a phd? Kind of think it's very clear to me when I look at it through one lens versus the social pressure lens, and I don't want to live based on that social pressure.

Kenny Lange [00:29:51]:
Yeah, sort of to draw a big circle back, but based on your own compass of where's true north, where do I need to be heading? Where do I need to be going? Would you say that ignoring social pressures? Because Lord knows, when you're trying to climb the ladder, you're a middle manager. There's a lot of pressures right from above and below. Like when you're a CEO, obviously, you have a board that you're accountable to and you have your team, but you get the benefits and the responsibilities of being CEO. But if you were talking to somebody who's on their way up, those pressures sometime, especially early on in your leadership career, can feel immense, like you almost don't have a choice. Now, I can go off on a soapbox tangent about that, but not having a choice. But what would you say to them in terms of they're trying to follow their compass, but that compass is being squeezed by the corporation, the organization around them, maybe family pressures, things like that.

Evita Morin [00:31:04]:
Gosh, that's a hard one. I can say that I had to decide what I always wanted, what my threads were. And so, for instance, I want to be in service. I want to be in a position of service. And so that is going to be a lens that helps me make a decision. I remember when I had a circumstance, when I was in that middle, early career situation where I had an opportunity to work at a place that had a full time gig and better pay, but that was not where I was feeling called, versus a part time gig at a much lower pay, at a much lower position that I wanted to be a part of. And I took that part time position in the place I wanted to be a part of. And I very quickly advanced throughout that organization to where I wanted to be because that's where my energy was going and that's where I was going to be the best employee and it showed.

Evita Morin [00:32:10]:
And I do think that there are those hard calls and they are risky, but I hate to be in cliche, but you do only live once, right? I think the benefit also of being early in that career is hopefully you might potentially be early in family building and things like that. Take those risks while you're young. Take them all while you're young, because you won't have that. Forget about social pressure. You've got mouths to feed and that's a whole other kind of pressure that you have to take this point. I'll flip burgers if I need to, but that's a different kind of pressure right now.

Kenny Lange [00:32:49]:
I love that there is an element of risk to take. Our language might be placing bets, right? And this is one reason, and I've intentionally. I've never steered the show towards being just an advertisement for my practice or system and soul. But it is one thing about having that personal roadmap that I've really loved is getting some clarity around my superpower and where do I want to be and am I keeping track of the right things and going in that direction. And I think that could maybe be a good practice or a help to somebody. But I love the idea of reverse engineering the resilience compass vulnerability. Everyone's going to die.

Evita Morin [00:33:40]:
And other happy thoughts.

Kenny Lange [00:33:41]:
And other happy thoughts. That's the new book coming from Evita. Just keep your eyes out. Everybody's going to die. And other happy thoughts. So it's not really. Don't go search on Amazon and write me an email now.

Evita Morin [00:33:56]:
I've read a book. Thank you.

Kenny Lange [00:34:00]:
If somebody is looking to build that resilience, follow their compass, which it sounds like vulnerability is part and parcel of doing both of those things. How would somebody get started and take a baby step? Because the things you're talking about are not small. They're maybe simple, but not easy. I think often we fear the idea of something more than the thing itself. So what advice would you give someone to break through and take that first baby step?

Evita Morin [00:34:37]:
Yeah, I can start by just talking a little bit about some of those questions that I ask myself every week. I think that's a good start because those are my baby steps. And so the very first thing that when I walk into the office on Monday, I really need to identify what is not my line, that I need to let go. So a lot of times we carry things that do not belong to us. And so I know there's a Damon west, great author, talked about this long line. This is God's line. This is God's line, and it's a mile long. And yours is a tiny little gash right there.

Evita Morin [00:35:19]:
Nothing else is yours. Every week I ask myself, what have I been carrying that is really not on my line? And I put it down on paper, and then I take it off my line, because if I don't clear that, it will be a distraction, and I don't want distractions. I want clarity. And that's what I'm in pursuit of. I typically have a few lines where I just, dear God. And whatever comes out, sometimes it's thank you. Sometimes it's please help me. It just depends on what that is.

Evita Morin [00:35:51]:
But God needs to hear from me. If not daily or multiple times a day, at least once a week. I need to write something down that is a direct then. And this might be superstitious, I don't know, but I find that we all experience this where we're throughout the know. Oh, Kayla. I haven't thought about her in a know John. I wonder what's going on with him. These little names pop up, these people in our lives.

Evita Morin [00:36:18]:
And I do believe that your brain is processing everything it has to do, and it's giving you answers you don't even realize it's giving you. And so at this point, I consider those answers to prayers I have put out in the. When I. When I hear Kayla, when Kayla pops up in my head, I immediately go down to my list and I'm like, is this someone that I need to thank, or is this someone I need to encourage? Or is this someone I'm supposed to be asking for advice?

Kenny Lange [00:36:48]:
Wow.

Evita Morin [00:36:49]:
And typically, if unnamed comes up, I find that there's a value in some way in connecting with that person for one of those three things. And so I do that throughout the week. And I think that that has been very beneficial to me. And I found that I have been able to solve problems, especially on that. Like, oh, I really should go to this person to address this problem that I've been carrying around that I haven't resolved yet. They're there. And so many times, the answer is connecting with other people. So many times, the answer is connecting with other people and getting out of our own heads.

Evita Morin [00:37:22]:
And those people, they come into our brain all the time, and we just let them go. Stop letting those names go. And then after that, it becomes pretty habitual. Like, what are the things that. Those habits that I'm trying to handle every week? Do I get to the gym three times a week? Am I taking my vitamins? Those kinds of stuff? And I've got a list. But outside of that, those are the questions that I typically explore every week. And I found that to be an important compass in how my weeks go, how my goals are met, and how I heal at the end of the week.

Kenny Lange [00:37:57]:
Thank you for sharing those. Those are really powerful. I love what's not on my line, what's mine to do. I heard an Enneagram teacher talk a lot about that to get things off her plate. Or some people would say a to don't list. I just like saying to don't. It's a fun word to say. So I love that.

Kenny Lange [00:38:24]:
And I think anybody can get started with that, just answering those simple questions. And in my experience, it's usually the answer is the beginning of another question and it's another thread to pull on. So it's not the end all, be all. So, Evita, I really love the things you had to share today, and I'm sure we're going to have another podcast in the future, if nothing else to talk about that book but the fake book that you're going to write. I'll do the forward, but if somebody wanted to get in contact with you, learn more from you, or just follow the work you're doing with rise recovery, where would you send?

Evita Morin [00:39:03]:
Yeah, I would send them to certainly to email me or find me on Facebook. E maureen@risercovery.org or find me vitamarine. And I'm pretty public because I am the CEO of a nonprofit. Pretty easy to find. I'm on LinkedIn. Otherwise, if you're interested in learning more about the work that we do, www.riserecovery.org is our website and all of our services are provided at no charge to the people we support. And that's because of generous donors who make our work possible. So I am grateful for anyone who is interested to learn more.

Kenny Lange [00:39:39]:
Yeah, it is an excellent program, so go check it out. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you to all you listeners. I am always grateful that you would take any time to pay attention to these conversations. If you got value out of it, please like subscribe, share. It'll help more people find the show and get the value that you're getting and maybe discover something that unlocks their leadership. But until next time, remember, if you think differently, you'll lead differently. You.