How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Evan Cox [00:00:00]:
The highest motive gives you the greatest motivation and I think that is attributed to marketing and fundraising. If the goal is just to get them to click or to get them to give, it's a little shortsighted. If it's to actually help them accomplish what they want to see in life or what they want to do in the world, you're going to end up helping them and raising a ton more money in the process.

Kenny Lange [00:00:26]:
Welcome to the How Leaders Think podcast, the show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I'm your host, Kenny Lang and with me today is the Evan Cox. He is the principal, not of the school, but of Evan Cox Consulting. He helps non profits and cause driven brands market and fund the work they believe in. That's it, that's the whole bio. That's, that's just, it's perfect. And I think he's going to get a gold star for world's most concise and impactful bio. Welcome to the show, Evan.

Evan Cox [00:01:00]:
Thanks, Kenny. Glad to be here. And I'm glad to give you a short bio because oftentimes it's a run on sentence that goes for multiple paragraphs.

Kenny Lange [00:01:08]:
Right. It usually is like he was born on a cold and dreary night and it's like I don't need all that hard stop. But you know, sometimes I'll read it and I punch it up a little bit. But I'm excited to have this conversation with you. Our first one, which was not recorded, it's not for public eyes, was, was a lot of fun. So I have every reason to believe that this one will be equally as fun and valuable. So tell me, Evan, what is on your mind?

Evan Cox [00:01:36]:
Well, actually our first conversation. You were live at a Panera because weren't you trying to avoid nap time? If I remember correctly, you're trying to avoid waking a sleeping child or something like that, Right?

Kenny Lange [00:01:48]:
Well, it makes it sound more like I was fighting nap time the way that you.

Evan Cox [00:01:52]:
That's true.

Kenny Lange [00:01:53]:
I was. That's why I went to Panera, got some coffee and I won the battle over nap time. Yes. My, my, my two year old sleeps nearby and I, if I wake him up, then my wife gets involved and if I'm the reason he didn't take a full nap, then I may not get to record again and nobody will find the body.

Evan Cox [00:02:18]:
Yeah, I feel that I'm in the basement, but with my kids upstairs. It doesn't take much noise for that to somehow go downstairs like before school. There's a couple hours Where I just know it's a little more hectic upstairs, so like I have to plan accordingly.

Kenny Lange [00:02:34]:
Tiny elephants.

Evan Cox [00:02:35]:
That's exactly right.

Kenny Lange [00:02:38]:
So yeah, I'm definitely, I need to. That's why if people see me at the Panera, just know I'm either avoiding waking a child or I am fighting my own personal nap time.

Evan Cox [00:02:48]:
So. Or maybe both.

Kenny Lange [00:02:50]:
Maybe a little bit of both. So what have you been thinking about lately, Evan? What's been, what's been consuming your thoughts?

Evan Cox [00:02:58]:
I think it's probably a continuation of what we ended up talking about actually over that meeting, which was this idea in working with so many nonprofits and cause based brands, even in the last few weeks. There's this like subtle idea of like fundraising is icky or I don't like this idea because asking for money is like either foreign or it comes with these like money triggers from either past experience or like your salary's tied up into it. This idea that either fundraising or even marketing has this like means to an end approach. And really what I really want any nonprofit or cause based brand to realize is that marketing or fundraising, when done right, is an active service on behalf of your end audience. Now it has to be done right. It can't be sleazy. But if you have the right approach and framework, it can actually be an active service for a church or a faith based nonprofit, active ministry even. There can be something there that allows you to take this from the art of asking for more money into building authentic relationships that actually serve the audience of donors and the people that you're ultimately trying to serve as well.

Evan Cox [00:04:15]:
If you have more than one audience.

Kenny Lange [00:04:18]:
There'S a lot there to unpack. My brain's gone in a couple different directions. Number one, I don't think anybody listening would, would disagree with you, which is, you know, it's great. It's like, okay, there's, it's a blinding flash of the obvious. As a coach of, of mine in a training session would, would say. And I was like, okay, yeah, it's like, you know, when those happen, then it's like, okay, there's some intuitive truth. There's. But I think when people hear that, they agree with it.

Kenny Lange [00:04:46]:
They said yes, that is the, that is the best way to go about it. Now maybe you have a unique take and I do think that that's different because people just want anti sleazy. But I think you took it a step further when you say it's an actual act of service, act of ministry. It's, it's benevolent altruistic even when done right. So the two things I'd love for you to break down a little bit are one, how do you. How do you talk about taking it a step further instead of just not being icky. Right. But actually pursuing it as an act of service? And two, people may agree with you, but they're saying, well, yeah, that's great, but it just, it always sounds that way.

Kenny Lange [00:05:32]:
It always feels that way. I don't really know, like, well, how do you change, how do you even go about changing that?

Evan Cox [00:05:39]:
Yeah, I don't know that I have all of the best practices finalized because it's always evolving. But I think a couple of stories might illustrate when you're in the right zone versus when you're not. When I started doing the work of marketing and fundraising, I was working for a large nonprofit. I had sat in every seat at the table internally outside of finance and hr. I was even the outside landscaper for a season. Right. Like, I picked weeds and I mowed the grass. A different story for a different time.

Evan Cox [00:06:09]:
But marketing and fundraising were two of these things that if you only asked for money when talking with donors, it became a one sided relationship. And a relationship solely based on money is transactional, not transformative. And so oftentimes what I would do is I would begin establishing a relationship with a donor not with the intent to get more money from them, but just like, thank them because maybe they're an existing donor. Like you've given for X number of years. Do you realize what that's tallied up to and what we've been able to accomplish? And then also what that quickly turned into is we did a variety of different programs, humanitarian work. People were calling me on Saturday night when a California wildfire was in their area and they owned horses. My sister's actually on the US Equestrian team.

Kenny Lange [00:07:03]:
Right.

Evan Cox [00:07:03]:
So we had a bond over horses.

Kenny Lange [00:07:05]:
Wow.

Evan Cox [00:07:05]:
And so, like, she was like, please pray not just for us, but this wildfire is coming and we don't know what we're going to do with our horses. And so our relationship extended beyond the fact that they gave and transformed into, like, us actually praying for them. Now that's a faith based context, Right? It's not true for everybody, but in that scenario, like, we were able to talk through a crisis in their moment that transcended money. And what did they end up doing? About a month later, they gave to our disaster relief program because we were there in their time of need during disaster. That is where you can start to move beyond just this transactional and start to be transformative. Or one other example, I thought through a couple. A high net worth individual oftentimes does not have the community because they're the CEO or they're the largest giver in their church or they don't have people who realize like this constraints of what it looks like to be in their, in their scenario. And so they didn't have much of a network around them.

Evan Cox [00:08:08]:
Well, somebody on our team was walking through the loss of a loved one and I vividly remember them telling us this story because they got off the call and this high net with individual said, I'm getting ready to lose my husband. Like he's in the final stages of hospice and I've never gone through this before. And what our team members said, well, I have. I'm actually a pastor 20 years. I'm driving now. I will meet you in Nashville. We're in St. Louis, four hours away.

Evan Cox [00:08:36]:
I will be there this weekend and we're going to walk through this together.

Kenny Lange [00:08:41]:
Wow.

Evan Cox [00:08:42]:
Now, not everybody can do that. You can't drop everything and drive four hours away. It has to be the right moment with an established like. But the principle of it is nonprofit fundraising or marketing, when done right, moves from transactional asking for money. And you're walking with people building trust and relationships. And that takes time, time and effort.

Kenny Lange [00:09:05]:
Right. I love those stories. And a lot of times it is easier to pull from a story and illustration and gaining new understanding. I was, I was curious in and telling that, you know, someone says great, those are some great moments. But I'm thinking of the marketer, maybe the fundraiser, the person listening and they're like, okay, cool. I'll be on the lookout for if our donors are in crisis, show my humanity and find a way to meet their need. But I'm working on our end of year giving campaign. I'm working on a new capital campaign.

Kenny Lange [00:09:49]:
Or we have our very large event, our annual event, our gala gala. I don't know what the right pronunciation is. No one can tell me.

Evan Cox [00:09:57]:
There is no pronunciation. It's all.

Kenny Lange [00:09:59]:
It's all relative there. It's all gibberish. It's all stuff where you get fancy. So you may have your fancy pants party. Fundraising party. How about that? Yeah, yeah. You get T shirt but then you have fancy pants. That's.

Kenny Lange [00:10:12]:
There's an event we just. And listener, you're free to take that. No trademark infringement. But they have those sort of things, the normal things of life and fundraising and nonprofits coming up. How do they translate those sort of stories? Of transformation over transaction, relationship over just requests. How do those things translate into the. Those moments where maybe you're not being presented with the, with that opportunity and you're instead just writing marketing copy and, and designing social media graphics or a booklet or banners?

Evan Cox [00:10:52]:
Yeah. Oh gosh, that is a great question. Because sometimes we're so heads down in the daily to do list or the things we have to do that it's hard to find the purpose either in those moments or figure out like how do you actually get to that story we talked about? I don't have all the answers, but a few things that come to mind is if you've got an event coming up or an end of your campaign, some big project, you can't magically expect people to get excited to give the moment. You send out your mailer and have that ad campaign just because now is your time to tell them your story. If you prime the pump with relationship beforehand, it means that you've got an end of year campaign happening. October, November, December, but maybe throughout the entire year you're establishing relationship with people that goes beyond the money so that when it comes time for that thing, you aren't just relying on. I hope you got the brochure, you can actually pick up the phone and say, Jerry, first of all, I hope your goldfish is okay. But secondly, you're getting something in the mail from me.

Evan Cox [00:11:55]:
I want you to be able to see it. Let me know when you like you have some rapport that actually primes the pump a little bit and isn't just like, oh, that organization sending out that end of year thing that I'm getting 30 of from all the groups. Like I've got four catalogs to buy cattle and I don't know who to pick from.

Kenny Lange [00:12:13]:
Right, right. That makes a lot of sense. So the, you know, almost this is overly simplistic, but you invest in the relationship say not for nine months. So that during that three month, you know, marketing campaign for giving or event attendance where you're going to be asking for money. So it sort of supercharges that and it can help you stand out. Like you said is oftentimes large corporations, high net worth individuals, they're being hit up left and right. They're on somebody's list, right. To, to say, oh, we got to go ask them.

Kenny Lange [00:12:53]:
We, we got to go ask. If you're gonna, if you're gonna be doing a campaign and you want it to go well, you need to go talk to this family and that. Right. But doing the legwork on the front end is how when you send out your mailer, amongst all the others, that yours may be the one at the top of the pile or the one that actually gets picked up and looked at and say, you know what, there's three other events going on that weekend. We're going to attend theirs.

Evan Cox [00:13:23]:
And here's the tricky part. It all comes down to motive. Because if, if you take that approach, you can do that with the motive, even if it's subconscious, of I'm priming the pump so that when it's time to ask, they're going to give. Or you can also have the motive of I want to establish a long term relationship just to serve someone, to give them the update, to give them so that the ask is actually a part of a full, robust relationship. And if they can't give now, maybe they'll be compelled to give later because something else will tug at their heartstrings. Or this has been a hard like.

Kenny Lange [00:14:03]:
Right.

Evan Cox [00:14:04]:
So that piece, and actually a mentor of mine once said, the highest motive gives you the greatest motivation. And I think that is attributed to marketing and fundraising. If the goal is just to get them to click or to get them to give, it's a little shortsighted. If it's to actually help them accomplish what they want to see in life or what they want to do in the world, you're going to end up helping them and raising a ton more money in the process.

Kenny Lange [00:14:32]:
That's really good. I love that. But I think what you're articulating, and I don't like to use the term the devil's advocate, I think he's got enough. Is that sounds great, Evan, but how analyzing my motives, that's deep work. Or it feels like a waste of time or. Well, now you're getting at how I show up as a person. Right. I tuned into this to just get some really cool fundraising tips, but now you're telling me I really need to look at who I am as a, as a human coming into this because I think the most simple in definition of what you described of giving to get, that's manipulation.

Evan Cox [00:15:18]:
That's right.

Kenny Lange [00:15:19]:
Right. You can say, well, it's a transaction. Cool. And there is a transaction that happens. But giving, I'm going to give you attention so that I can get the thing I want from you. That, that's the most basic definition of manipulation. And I think that's the biggest, and at least in my experience, and I'd be curious of yours, is the biggest turnoff for donors, whether they've never given or they've given before is when they feel like they're being manipulated.

Evan Cox [00:15:44]:
Huh.

Kenny Lange [00:15:45]:
Out of their resources so that they become yours.

Evan Cox [00:15:50]:
100 yeah. It, it's not stealing but it has some connotations of that, doesn't it? Like it has some of those feelings. And the other thing that we talked about actually, was it over a supercharged lemonade or did you have coffee up in here? I can't remember.

Kenny Lange [00:16:05]:
I had coffee. They've gotten rid of the lemonades because of the lawsuits.

Evan Cox [00:16:09]:
So there was a lot of caffeine involved for me and for you.

Kenny Lange [00:16:13]:
Right.

Evan Cox [00:16:13]:
But one of the things that we talk about there is I think non profit has accidentally cut their impact in half doing the very thing that we're talking about here. And this is where we get to the practical part. If my donors are a means to get funds to help somebody else. Like let's take a water charity for example. Water organization. I've got people that need clean water in Africa or Asia. And so donors are helping this group get clean water. That is a fantastic mission.

Evan Cox [00:16:43]:
I love that. I've seen the impact firsthand of water wells that are like it's amazing. But the reality is you cut your impact in half when you're using one group to help another group. The reality is if you can actually have your cause be equally two groups at once. The people who donate and give or volunteer whoever is actively helping and the people who get clean water or visit your food pantry or whatever if you have both of those. As I'm going to help two groups of people transform. What it does is it doubles your impact because most people expect the only stats I can ever put on my annual report are this many people got clean water. But what if you said in your annual report we helped 500 donors have a life changing understanding of the impact of clean water.

Evan Cox [00:17:36]:
And like you actually like you built stats around that and you had the ability to showcase my audience isn't just the people in the end who get something. But it's also like that means that the email you send out shouldn't be do you want to give to this? It should maybe sometimes be how are things? That is one of my favorite emails to use to start relationships with your daughters subject line how are things? Question mark. It's an open ended question to check in on them that oftentimes leads to a great conversation around what they could give towards but isn't automatically assuming I'm only reaching out for money. That's a great, great Kickstarter to actually care about the person. But at the same time, you get back to what you mentioned, which is tactical marketing. I have a campaign that has to go out the door. Which by the way, all of this relationship stuff should not negate the fact that you still have deadlines to meet because an end of year campaign in February is not going to produce well either way. Like you still got to do the basics there too, right?

Kenny Lange [00:18:43]:
That's, that's really good. Is. Is thinking, hey, I don't just the process. I don't want to say relationship or even maybe the transaction, but maybe I'll just say the process does with donors, whether individual or, or foundation or corporate. How, however that's organized, the giving entity doesn't end when the, when the, you know, you get a email saying transaction completed, here's the receipt. Is really thinking about what is that person's experience. Is, is creating equal experiences. Now experiences on the other side, those are called programs, right? Like we got program management, program development, we have program outcomes, we have all these things and oftentimes we are focused on that one.

Kenny Lange [00:19:36]:
That's probably what started us in the work is we saw a need that needed to be met, that needed to be met through, you know, basically giving, giving away a type of service or product or something. Right? But we need to think about how if we're helping these people make good on say they have a life goal or purpose or a core value of, and not just of philanthropy, but maybe there is a connection with the work for, for clean water, right? Like maybe, maybe they have strong feelings towards basic human health needs and that aligns with them. Now yes, you should align with that in terms of the best donors are those that are philosophically and, and values wise aligned with your organization and your work. But what do they get in exchange from that beyond a photograph and a simple report? And maybe they can't give up their time, but you could still do something is what I hear you saying of how do you help them not just give money and receive maybe the warm tinglies and the tax deduction, but yeah, did they receive an experience that benefits and blesses their life? Maybe as much as the people who needed the financial resources that that person provided. Is that. Am I misinterpreting something here?

Evan Cox [00:21:09]:
No, I think you're spot on. And think about everybody. Everybody's got a passion, right? Like everybody's got some sort of hobby or passion oftentimes for somebody. And let's just use example of like a high net worth individual. Sometimes when business is going well, or they've got this income, a philanthropy arm of their life becomes this hobby or passion. They get educated. They get started from the ground up because they didn't know about it before. I've been to a couple of events where I could tell the thing that drove their life in terms of excitement was like, family and friends and then the fact that they actually were like a leading change agent in this specific program.

Evan Cox [00:21:52]:
Like, they were like, galvanizing their friends and family because their family had no idea we're used clean water again, had no idea of the stats of clean water. And they were like, I get to kind of be a connector. Like, everybody loves to be a connector. Right. Like, this person needs to know this person. Like, that's how we got connected.

Kenny Lange [00:22:11]:
Right, Right.

Evan Cox [00:22:12]:
Like that's how things go. But if you can find out what they value and what they care about, then you're right. The report is negligible. Like, the report is maybe part of a piece, but what they actually get is an ongoing relationship and connection to I am driving that mission forward. Or I'm playing my part. Or it could also be I'm playing my part and I'm doing it in a way that gets me the best tax deduction or I want to use a DAF or like, some people really care about that, some people don't. But that could be a piece that people really care about.

Kenny Lange [00:22:47]:
Yeah. Because it could speak to, you know, financial stewardship or whatever their other goals may be. You know, and I don't know if we talked about this in our previous conversations, but, you know, Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller. Know. Great book. Most people now have. Have come across, you know, story, brand, brand script, things like that. I used to, when I ran my agency, I would run companies through the process of, let's create a brand script.

Kenny Lange [00:23:15]:
Let's tell the story of your organization. And the very. After we got past, you know, what's the transformation that you think for. For anybody who uses your services, they're going to go from blank to blank. Once we got past that, then we needed to start talking about their ideal customer, client, and what did they want? And in his book, you know, Don Miller goes. Goes into, I think, seven different categories of desires. And it could be the accumulation of resources, it could be the efficiency of resources. One of them, though, and I don't know if they split this, but it was like the desire for meaning.

Kenny Lange [00:23:55]:
And also legacy is when I'm. When I'm dead and gone, how will I be remembered? What is the dent in the universe I'm going to be known for, even if it's just to that friends and family group is I may not need the world to think of me this way, but I would like the people in my world to think of me this way.

Evan Cox [00:24:19]:
That's right.

Kenny Lange [00:24:20]:
And do you find that, that when, when those of us who may be on the, the marketing, fundraising side of things, that trying to understand that aspect of somebody's motivation can be helpful? So long as our motive, like you said, as long as our, our motivation is for the, the, the highest good. Right. It's in a pure altruistic place, not manipulation. But in understanding that aspect of that person's motivation for giving. Is that what you lean into or recommend in terms of just have. Building a powerful relationship?

Evan Cox [00:25:02]:
Yeah. And I love that book. I'm actually certified. I think we talked about that in the story brand framework. And for me, every campaign or conversation should start resolving a problem. And here's what a lot of nonprofits get wrong is let's go back to that clean water example. The problem to solve is not necessarily that X number of people in this village don't have clean water. That's not always the problem to solve.

Evan Cox [00:25:30]:
Now that's a part of.

Kenny Lange [00:25:33]:
It's an external part.

Evan Cox [00:25:34]:
It's an external part. But if you're speaking to a donor, the problem could also be legacy. Make a difference. You can play a part. Is this relevant to you? Because the reality is if you got two audiences, the people in Africa who need clean water, what they need the problem at hand to be solved is I actually need a cup of water. But how silly is it us for? Think of like a donor, especially a high net worth individual, they walk to somewhere in their room and they've got four or five different access points to clean water. They don't need clean water. They need a relevant, tangible reason why they should give to that specific cause and why that will solve a problem for them.

Evan Cox [00:26:16]:
And it might be altruistic, they might just care about the cause, but it has to often be framed as this is you doing your part so that you can blank. There has to be a piece in there that resonates with what the donor wants, not just what the end result is of the problem that's solved in maybe a country 3,000 miles away.

Kenny Lange [00:26:39]:
What happens to campaigns to can't, to fundraising directors, marketing directors, if they don't think about that? What, what's the downside? I know we could get super simplistic, but being that you have the experience and and insight and that you do from your own practical time serve. There's. And now as a consultant, what, what's the, you know, at worst, it's unproductive in what way? And. Or at best it's unproductive. At worst it's what, what's the damage done by operating against the manner in which you're talking about.

Evan Cox [00:27:23]:
Oh, I love that question. That is one of the things that probably connects my work with your work and building communities and team and culture so much is because one of the things that it does is it can make it terribly inefficient to write, copy or produce a campaign or get. Because you're, you're struggling, you're grasping to figure out what's the problem or the reason why we're reaching out. Yes, it's end of year, but let's go beyond the time of year. Why, why are we setting this out now? And then when you get to team and culture, if your team isn't aligned around a problem or doesn't have a framework or a plan to get to that point, then not only is your team gonna spin their wheels and maybe have lack of alignment, which is where you come in, but like, oh my gosh, you're gonna end up not resonating. Even if you get it out the door. If you don't pick the right problem to solve, the person reading it might think, oh, that was a well written letter, or I'm glad that they're doing it, but if it isn't done the right way, it might not tug internally at them to say, now I'm going to put pen to paper or swipe the card or do X do my part in making this happen.

Kenny Lange [00:28:33]:
Yeah, it's that. Oh, that's, that's nice. But what does that have to do with me? Yeah. And I would think even on a, you know, a thing that could happen at the same time is if you're not clear on that, in particular, if you are a leader, which this is a podcast for leaders. Right. So probably not looking at the, the marketing intern, although certainly we welcome you intern.

Evan Cox [00:28:58]:
We do. I was once the intern.

Kenny Lange [00:29:01]:
We all were. Interns, gophers, you know, whatever, go for this, go for that. But I think about these, these manage these, these campaign managers, these directors of development and what have you is if they don't connect with the. It's almost like a product market fit. Right. Like if you're solving a problem no one cares enough about to give money to, you may end up costing a member of your team their job because you didn't generate enough dollars to keep them on board, you may lose your own job. Yeah, right. And so there's a very real downside, which if you're someone who accepted this position not just because you needed the J O B and a paycheck.

Kenny Lange [00:29:50]:
Right. But you actually cared about the cause. We'll just keep going to our clean water example. But you really are passionate about clean water. You wanted to apply the skills and abilities that, that you've cultivated, you've have or God gave you, however you believe about that, in service to getting people clean water. But you didn't do the work or you didn't connect enough with the issue and the donors and the people. You got myopic, you got transactional. You have actually hurt the cause.

Kenny Lange [00:30:22]:
You may have hurt future development dollars going here because, you know, as of this recording, tomorrow I'll be at a summit in, in Fort Worth. And Dan Pelota, who wrote the book and created the movie Uncharitable, he talks about the problem with people giving towards the administrative arms, the, the infrastructure of organizations. Nonprofits are scrutinized unlike so many other organizations. Right. Is, are how are you utilizing our dollars that we're giving you? And if it looks like just a ton of turnover and he can't keep people.

Evan Cox [00:31:01]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:31:02]:
Not only have you hurt people's jobs, but you may have hurt the cause itself, which is a risk that our for profits brothers and sisters don't necessarily have to deal with. Yeah.

Evan Cox [00:31:17]:
And I think the other piece in that conversation too is if you don't have a relevant reason for them to give now, you can't then say in a boardroom meeting or in a one off debrief after a campaign, well, our donors are just fatigued or they no longer want to give. There's lots of reasons if you don't have tangible data that you can kind of like cast it aside. And some of that may be the case. If you sent an appeal for 30 days straight, you're probably going to have a little bit of downer fatigue. Right. Like if they're getting things 30 days straight, there might be some fatigue. But the reality is there needs to be an urgent logical reason that someone should take their hard earned money and give to you. Right now, in that water example, it might be, and this is a true story, when we were doing clean water work and it's still happening today in that nonprofit, one of the reasons why they were doing water wells is because it was women who were forced to go walk for water, which meant they were unsafe, often taken advantage of, and there were crocodiles in the river.

Kenny Lange [00:32:24]:
Right.

Evan Cox [00:32:25]:
And so like people actually lost their life every time that a well wasn't drilled. It wasn't hyperbole, it wasn't an extra piece in there. It was a logical thing that we can say. Like, listen, the whole card, the, like, the cold hard facts are this happens when we don't do this work and there's some level of like, oh, now I understand that if I don't play my part, it's not manipulation, but like there is a real outcome which is.

Kenny Lange [00:32:53]:
I, I, it seems simple. But isn't that what nonprofit work is supposed to do anyways? Yeah, right. Progress, not activity.

Evan Cox [00:33:05]:
Yep.

Kenny Lange [00:33:05]:
Like that's if, if we don't give now, then these bad things happen. We're trying to intervene in a negative thing happen. We're trying to do good in the world, but we have to do well in order to do good.

Evan Cox [00:33:19]:
Exactly. Yeah, that's well said.

Kenny Lange [00:33:23]:
So if, if somebody is listening to this and saying, look, okay, so we, we've gotta, we've gotta cultivate relationships. We want transformation, not transactions. We need to reach out, we need to have good motivations and, and this is gonna help and supercharge all the, the efforts that we have. That could sound really overwhelming. That sounds like a big thing. Right. Because it's not, it's not this little tactical. Like if you do A and then B and then C, then you magically get lots of money.

Kenny Lange [00:33:55]:
Right. And that's the tough part. Right. Like fundraising would be easy if it weren't for all these people. So if somebody though says, I would love to be that kind of development officer, fundraiser, marketer, what have you, what's a, what's a great first step, a baby step someone could take in the next 24 hours spending little to no money on this to take a next step or, or, or first step towards becoming more like what you've described here.

Evan Cox [00:34:31]:
That's a great question. Let's think first about that mid to larger size nonprofit where there might be multiple team members, there might be somebody who's responsible for this. And let's say that you have a day to day role that just has you heads down working on that campaign. One thing that I found super helpful was to actually look ahead to a time where I wasn't as busy, maybe it's three weeks from now and say, I'm going to put a time block on the calendar for one hour. In that one hour, I'm just going to call four to five donors to check in, get their feedback, see how they're doing, and then also see how much they know about what we're doing. Not only is it a good ability to start relationships, but also it can tell you is your perception of what you're doing and how you're going about your business, their perception of what's happened. Like, it is a hard data gathering exercise that also builds relationship. Find a time when you're not as busy or like make time for it.

Evan Cox [00:35:32]:
It can only be an hour, that's fine. But if you are not regularly talking with your donors, that's step one. Like, regardless of what your role is, you could be the admin, set aside time, find out which donors to talk to. Maybe you have a CRM, call a few of them, email a couple of them, start a conversation. It's going to pay big dividends. So that'd be one very practical example.

Kenny Lange [00:35:57]:
Yeah, I love that. And I know some people may go, oh man, I got a call. I got to say these things like, you're not pitching, not pitching. Yeah, you're just, you're just asking questions, which honestly takes a lot of the pressure off of you. So it's, it's not, hey, I'm going to go and drum up five new things. It's like you're just going to talk to people who have already bought into your, your mission. You're just going to ask them some questions, take some notes and, and oftentimes that's what you know, when people feel heard, they feel valued. And ultimately I think a lot of, you know, a lot of the donors, they want to make sure like their dollars are doing what they're promised that they're going to do.

Kenny Lange [00:36:39]:
But they also want to know that, that they are a valuable part of the mission, that they're not being used. And so I think that has a lot of great benefit. So I hope, I hope if you're listening and, and you're in that role and in that position that you, you do, you block that time tomorrow, next week, three weeks, next month. And it's real easy to get on whatever calendar, Google or God help you if you're using Microsoft. I'm biased.

Evan Cox [00:37:04]:
It might be too far gone for anybody using an Office product. We might just need, you exclude, you.

Kenny Lange [00:37:08]:
Might just, just shut the doors, start, start it over, but put a recurring thing on there, monthly, quarterly, you know what, whatever makes the most sense and start doing that as a regular practice. So I love that. Evan, if somebody wanted to know more about you, about your consultancy, your work or, or just the wisdom that, that you're, you're dropping on a regular basis. Where would you send them?

Evan Cox [00:37:33]:
Oh, I appreciate you asking. So if you go to evancoxconsulting.com resources, you're going to see a variety of things you can download for free or ways to engage both me and the team. We specialize in marketing and fundraising. And unlike a number of other agencies out there which are probably doing great work, we try to batch how we approach our work in a way that meets anybody's budget. So there can be a DIY template that you can get for free or a low cost if you're willing to put in the elbow grease. All the way up to us doing a website or campaign for that organization that needs the expertise but doesn't have the time to implement it. And there's a ton of free things. There's even an annual report template that we just loaded up in there that you can get for free and that you can knock out in one afternoon.

Evan Cox [00:38:20]:
We tested it. We actually time tested it in one afternoon. You can build your annual report for your organization absolutely free. It's drag and drop in Canva. Put your photos, put your stories in there and you're off to the races. I love.

Kenny Lange [00:38:34]:
I, I've got a board meeting this evening. I may, I may go download it and bring that up for us. Absolutely. Do it. Awesome. Well, Evan, thank you so much for being a guest. I look forward to further conversations. I'm convinced this won't be the last time that you're a guest and Dr.

Kenny Lange [00:38:50]:
Dropping some knowledge on us. Thank you. To you, the listener, listeners, I say listener, I'm told that you're supposed to address it as though you're speaking just to one person. So there, there you go. Now you're addressed, feel seen, feel heard, feel loved today. But if you enjoyed this, if you got value out of this or any of the other episodes, I would deeply appreciate a, like a rate, a review, a subscribe or whatever the button is on the platform you consume this on because number one, it gives me some feedback and lets me know, hey, these things are good. These things not so good. Because at the end of the day I'm here to create value for you.

Kenny Lange [00:39:27]:
Yes, I enjoy doing this, but it's, it's not worth my time if I'm not making it worth your time. And also, you never know who needs to hear this particular conversation. And, and you giving it a little bit more love and attention may put it in their path and unlock their next step in leadership. And that's a free and easy way for you to pay it forward. But until next time, change the way you think you'll change the way you believe. We'll see you.