How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

HLT: Dawn Franks Full Interview
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[00:00:00] Dawn Franks: so a lot of times, many times nonprofit organizations describe or frame what they do without a real understanding of how similar they sound to two or three other nonprofits in the community. And so when you talk about telling a story, Understanding marketing is really a big deal to making sure that you are telling your story in a way, as you said, that's not only unique, but is clear and does away with the blur because what philanthropists do when the picture is blurred, it is just back away.

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[00:00:40] Kenny Lange: Welcome to the How Leaders Think Podcast, a show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I am your host Kenny Lang, and with me today is the myth, the legend, Don Franks. I'm your hype man, so we'll, we'll keep working on that.

[00:00:56] She is the president, CEO, chief Everything [00:01:00] Officer of Don Frank's strategic solutions. She launched recently a consulting practice to provide coaching and planning for philanthropists and nonprofit leaders, but she comes from 40 years of experience as an executive in the nonprofit world and leading private family foundations, which is no joke.

[00:01:20] Welcome to the show, Don.

[00:01:21] Dawn Franks: Thank you Kenny, and thanks for giving me a chance to visit with you.

[00:01:26] Kenny Lange: Yeah, absolutely. I I figured it, it's about time instead of me just interrupting all of your, your coffee meetings at Panera, that we would have a scheduled time for us to talk. So next time I'm just gonna be like, Hey, hi, bye. And just sneak out the back door. But I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

[00:01:44] You, you are a, a well. Of, of wisdom and, and having gotten to see you, you teach, you're at our, our board retreat, which was really helpful. And I was, I was taking notes, which if anybody knows me, knows, I hate taking notes unless something's really good. I believe I can [00:02:00] remember everything. And then 15 minutes later I'm like, what is it that we were talking about?

[00:02:04] So tell me today though, what is on your mind?

[00:02:07] Dawn Franks: This is a really interesting time right now for philanthropists and for nonprofit organizations, not just in our local community, but across the entire country because there are. Significant shifts going on in Washington, DC administratively, that is impacting funding that's going to travel back toward nonprofits in the work they do.

[00:02:36] And I can explain why that is important for a philanthropist or important for a nonprofit because they have it. They come at it from different perspectives. But it's a very interesting time that we're in right now.

[00:02:50] Kenny Lange: Yes. I, I, I would agree. And, and obviously is there's been a topic in different groups that you and I are both a part of, so it's been talked about. I'm [00:03:00] curious, number one, set, set the stage for us on what makes it interesting. What, what's been the current thinking around. Grants government funding, which is very different from private donors or even the like, family foundations that, that you've run.

[00:03:14] What's happening right now, and then let's get into why that matters and, and how people can be processing that in a, in a healthy way.

[00:03:24] Dawn Franks: Uh, Actually for my whole career, the opportunity for an organization to apply for state or federal funding has always existed, has always been a challenge. It always also takes, always takes a certain level of, sophistication maybe is not quite the word, but maybe preparation is a better word. That an organization is prepared at a certain level operationally to actually be able to handle those funds or to even write such a grant.

[00:03:55] But you've always, it's always been a competitive process and [00:04:00] nothing about that has changed in my whole career. There have always been ups and downs when there have been changes in administration, but this is the first time that we have, in my lifetime adult career lifetime actually seen a situation where not only do we have a great deal of flux around.

[00:04:22] Leadership because there are, we are changing from a democratic leadership who are heading agencies to a more republican org oriented leadership heading. Those organizations that happens every time We have a major change in administration, whether it's every four or every eight years. That always

[00:04:42] Kenny Lange: From every, from one party to the next.

[00:04:44] Dawn Franks: From one part of the next, that's not a change. What is also different this time though, is that there's been significant federal employee layoffs that impact who does what and how things are going to get done, and it's [00:05:00] gonna impact timing

[00:05:01] Kenny Lange: Yeah.

[00:05:01] Dawn Franks: of things, schedules, et cetera. And they. Is a lot of interpretation going on right now in terms or maybe I should say redefinition of terms who it might be available to.

[00:05:17] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:18] Dawn Franks: Who would be more likely to be considered a viable candidate for those funds? And, and what that translates to basically is there is a tremendous amount of anxiety.

[00:05:33] In some groups, out and out fear about how those changes coming out of Washington DC are going to have an impact. So some organizations receive federal funding, A lot of federal funding passes through state capitals. For us here in Texas, it's gotta go through Austin. It goes through the governor's office or some agency there, and then back out to the nonprofit.

[00:05:58] Kenny Lange: Okay.

[00:05:59] Dawn Franks: So even [00:06:00] when that happens, there's all this shift going on from Washington to then the state capital, and then what the state capital leaders are going to do and how they're going to parse that those funds out to the local organizations.

[00:06:14] Kenny Lange: Gotcha. Sort of Like a funding uh, supply chain logistics.

[00:06:18] Dawn Franks: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So with so much change going on, there's just lots and lots of question about what's happening, and then of why that impacts philanthropists is that as soon as nonprofit organizations get nervous about where their funding is gonna come from, and they start looking around for other buckets.

[00:06:43] To go to for that funding. And so then that means an increased pressure on family foundations, corporate foundations, they're all going to see a um, increase in request [00:07:00] um, in the next year or two, just because organizations are going to start trying to cover their bases.

[00:07:05] Kenny Lange: , the increase in those requests to, private funding versus government funding, do you think that that shift in requests and, and attention, is that a good thing?

[00:07:15] Is it a bad thing or is it just like that's a reality? It's neither good nor bad.

[00:07:19] Dawn Franks: It's definitely a reality. It will seem bad or a negative. For some, because if I'm a nonprofit organization and I haven't really done much research to find out what nonprofit, what foundations are interested in the work I do, we do. Then you're starting on the back, foot you're not able to just launch right out and go looking.

[00:07:45] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:46] Dawn Franks: Some Private foundations are, trying to step back a little bit because they're anticipating that there's going to be an increase in request. So they're [00:08:00] trying to figure out do we need to be a little bit more specific about what we fund and don't fund. They're actually taking on maybe a wait and see what the administration does and how it affects state and federal funding, and then we'll figure out how to come in alongside. Um, So you've kind of got all of that going on, which is why it, the fear level is, is rising because nobody has answers.

[00:08:28] Kenny Lange: gotcha. Yeah, so, so really it's just that, that uncertainty. Of, will this be good? Will this be bad? Could you, I, I have co-opted from somebody I don't know who to give attribution to, but the saying of, nonprofit is a tax status, not a growth strategy. So non nonprofits or businesses in the end of the day, they're businesses.

[00:08:53] Do you think some of the fear. Comes is mostly from those nonprofits that [00:09:00] maybe they were like teetering on the brink, they weren't as healthy, may, maybe they weren't as skilled at managing cash flow or, or some of those things like when those things happen for the business community, when, supply chain logistics like take Covid for example upset a whole lot.

[00:09:18] Of businesses, restaurants, all these different things. Those that had some of these things, they were prepared. Or they had diversified, they weathered the storm. It still hurt, but they weathered the storm. They pivoted, they found new avenues, and then, they got to come out on the other side.

[00:09:34] Do you, would you say that that's similar here or is this just is it something else?

[00:09:42] Dawn Franks: Wow. That's such a good question. I, I think it's something else. There are similarities to what we experienced during the, the, the covid period. In that, that all came as such a shock and no one had been through a situation where there was a shutdown everywhere.

[00:09:59] It [00:10:00] impacted all of us, not equally, but certainly everyone was impacted. but Part of what's really, really different about this is that we have for, in this country, I'm gonna say the last 20 years, and in an increasing level in the last decade, a move toward equity and. Way beyond what it means to have equality of services, but actual equity of services, which takes us to a really new level.

[00:10:29] And we are at a point where the definition of minority groups has expanded significantly. It doesn't just mean color or ethnicity anymore. So because of that, over this last decade, especially. Really seen ramp up in the expectation that when organizations are applying for funding, that they will make sure that they address how their services are serving all people. So [00:11:00] the shift right now that has gone on politically is to move what feels like to many people and to many groups light years away from where they thought they were, which was that they had finally reached a place where their voices were heard. And there was more fairness for sure in how funding was passed on.

[00:11:23] Who it was passed to Part of why this is different is because this is a mindset change. If I'm the grant writer and I have been writing grants for many years aiming to get funders to fund us for the services we provide, I have learned how to write those grants using the right words,

[00:11:41] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:42] Dawn Franks: but that this change is actually significant enough that it is saying. We actually want to remove words. We actually want to say there are certain words that are too hot to use there. They would be targeted in some way. They would [00:12:00] create a negative response at the federal level for sure, and potentially. What would happen is that as money moves from Washington down to the local capitals, there will be strings attached that say you cannot fund certain things with this money.

[00:12:15] And if that happens, then it continues right on down to the local level. So I think for many it's, it's regardless of what the services are or how they've been delivered. It's sitting back and going, okay, now how are we going to tell our story? What words are we supposed to use? What words should we not use right now?

[00:12:37] 'cause the administration is, becomes hypersensitive to a negative reaction, a negative response to serving certain groups of individuals or organizations that serve. Particularly ideologies and thinking. So it's, it's super complicated and it's messy. Just about the messiest thing I've seen.[00:13:00]

[00:13:00] Kenny Lange: but as you were saying before, like when we switch what, which political party might be in, in power? The language that you use, what they're looking for changes. We've had, people have had to make this shift and we just gotta tailor that. It's the same thing. Like I, I, we've talked about this as being speakers at, at conferences and summits and things like that.

[00:13:22] I have, I have some core topics, but there's usually a theme or something like that and that they're looking to align with. And I'm like, oh, well that's. That's a new lens by which I can reinterpret my content and say yeah, it does align this way. I might actually highlight a different element at this conference than I would at that.

[00:13:41] So I have my core topic and then I reinterpret it based on how it might align over here. How is this really any different than just saying, Hey, they're looking for something different? So we gotta write it differently. Is it, at its [00:14:00] essence, is it anything more than that?

[00:14:02] Dawn Franks: At its essence, that is what it, that is what it is. Many people though, will feel like they have been damaged and hurt in some way and have lost ground. So there's it, it, it has many layers, and we're gonna hear about this for a long time.

[00:14:22] Kenny Lange: Sure.

[00:14:23] Dawn Franks: but let's, let's move a little bit in the direction of what's the, what's the immediate answer that an organization or a philanthropist can be thinking about to address a, a time that is super messy because we, we simply are in it, we're living in it.

[00:14:39] So,

[00:14:40] Kenny Lange: We can only control what we can control, right?

[00:14:42] Dawn Franks: So we can only do what we can do right now, right where we are, right in the local community that we're in, or the organization that we work for.

[00:14:50] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:51] Dawn Franks: And think that quite often in the nonprofit community there's been an increasing. Understanding [00:15:00] that, like you said, nonprofits are a business and in the last 20 years or so, nonprofits have begun to operate and act more businesslike 1980s and nineties. There's all, there's been this moving shift, but we're definitely much more into that today than we were in the past. even though nonprofits might spend some time doing some strategic planning, their boards are more keen to budgetary issues and that sort of thing to today than they might have been a decade or so ago.

[00:15:28] What I don't see nonprofits do well, which I think would be useful right now, is that they don't really take advantage of scenario planning.

[00:15:37] most of the time when boards board of directors come together for a nonprofit meeting that they're on, and they, they hope to get in and get out and be done with that meeting within an hour, an hour and a half.

[00:15:48] It's full of all kinds of reports that everybody needs to see and everybody needs to understand. But some of the most important work that a board needs to do is thinking, planning.

[00:15:58] Asking the tough [00:16:00] questions and scenario planning goes even a further step, which is to say, let's propose a couple of things that could happen and then go ahead and plan out, think about what we would do and actually take time to do that.

[00:16:17] And I think if nonprofits could. For, make themselves plan time with their board of directors to start that kind of thinking that it would help them get on the front foot instead of being on the back foot. And don't just wait, be to hear how the request for proposal from Washington or from the state capital.

[00:16:40] Don't just wait for that to come. Go ahead and. Think now what would you do if and get a little more prepared?

[00:16:50] Kenny Lange: Gotcha. Yeah, it's I mean there's a, there's a lot of probably analogies and stuff that we can make, but it, it makes me think of just like normal [00:17:00] re like in relationships, like the worst time to discuss. A really critical issue is like in the midst of an argument, like with your friend or your partner or something like that.

[00:17:12] That's not the time. Like it may be top of mind right then, but you're in all of your feelings. There's fear, there's anger, there's all the mix. It's not gonna come out right. You're not gonna make sound decisions. Nobody ever made a great decision when they were angry or or afraid.

[00:17:27] Dawn Franks: Right.

[00:17:28] Kenny Lange: But saying, Hey, like we, we might see something coming up, or we just know that this is something that is common to our particular uh, realm of, of nonprofits, right?

[00:17:39] Because nonprofits, aren't just a big old collection. Like they have their just almost like sub niches in there. And, and so it, it's uh, creating a, if this happens, then we do sort of planning, right?

[00:17:55] Dawn Franks: Yes.

[00:17:55] Kenny Lange: Who should be leading that? Is that a and I, I'll hype you up. Bring in [00:18:00] Dawn.

[00:18:00] Should, should organizations be bringing in a, a third party like you or, or, or me or, or someone else that does this sort of work? Is this something that a particular subcommittee like I just. Got named to run my governance committee, which means I should probably give you a call because I, I'm just making it up.

[00:18:20] Or is that the president? Is that everybody together? What, what does that look like and who's the catalyst for, for that sort of planning and thinking and introducing those ideas?

[00:18:30] Dawn Franks: I think the catalyst is potentially the board president or chair. At a minimum it should be the executive director who is thinking should always be thinking forward. So between the two of them. And if none of them, if they're, they're not doing it, then certainly a board member just needs to say, Hey, time out guys.

[00:18:48] Let's, let's talk about how we're gonna be prepared for the future. So, in other words, there's. Anybody on the board can raise their hand and basically [00:19:00] say, we need to do some planning. If they don't hear it coming from the actual two leaders of that board. And that organization and board members should not wait in silence, then be thinking, we should be doing this, and they shouldn't be having a meeting out in the parking lot saying, when are we gonna get around to doing this? It needs to come out in the board meeting. Say it, don't, don't keep it to yourself. Now who is best to actually do that kind of scenario thinking? It is always helpful, in my opinion, to have an outside facilitator. Help you help an organization to think through this. It, it's the same with a private foundation whose board may try be trying to think about how are we gonna handle a whole lot more request than we may have ever had.

[00:19:50] The outside facilitator is objective, is able to help guide the group through the discussion. And. [00:20:00] Some decision making that they may need to do in a very healthy way.

[00:20:05] the outside facilitator plays a role in that. they don't have a, what do they, how do they say it?

[00:20:10] They don't have a dog in the hunt. It's not their issue, and so they should be able to bring that objectivity to it. Now, all of that said, you don't have to have an outside facilitator. If there's a, a strong board member who is very comfortable sort of leading a group. For instance, Kenny, you sit on your board and you have a lot of presentation skills and leadership skills, and so you, they could say, Hey, we just want Kenny to lead us through Some discussion. And I would also say some people might, some boards might have a tendency to think we've gotta get everybody together for a three or four hour meeting, and that's hard to do. Or just simply carve out dedicated time on the next four board meetings for that topic and stop the rest of it, and [00:21:00] very specifically go in for 20 or 30 minutes and unpack. And so maybe one meeting you identify four critical questions, and then at the next meeting you start unpacking those so that then you could make a plan. It doesn't have to be done in long board retreats and the what, what's called iterative work of board. Literally, massaging and packing and unpacking stuff.

[00:21:27] That's the core of their work. And so to make that part of the board agenda. Is absolutely a perfect way to do it. The other way is of the outside facilitator.

[00:21:41] Kenny Lange: Gotcha. Yeah. And one of the other benefits of an outside facilitator, this sounds like I'm selling myself but if you are part of the board or part of a group being facilitator and participant,

[00:21:52] Dawn Franks: You can't do both.

[00:21:53] Kenny Lange: it not. Well At least. and that, so sometimes just having the. The ability for everyone to be [00:22:00] fully engaged as a participant can, can net you a bigger benefit towards, towards your outcome.

[00:22:05] 'cause at the end of the day, you're there for outcomes.

[00:22:08] Dawn Franks: that's right.

[00:22:09] Kenny Lange: and I love the iterative piece is because it sounds like there's a, a great saying that, that I love which is, it's not what you decide, it's that you decide. So, what I hear you saying, if I were to translate, it's not what you do, it's that you do something right.

[00:22:25] The, the worst thing would just be saying, we should do something about this, and then never really taking action. And then, situation sneaks up on you and you're totally unprepared simply because it never moved past the ideation phase, right? We never really activated people to get the ball moving and execute.

[00:22:43] with that sort of planning, and you can't, I, I don't, I don't hear you saying that you should plan for every contingency, right? There's just some stuff that's gonna sneak up and bite you in the

[00:22:52] Dawn Franks: That's right.

[00:22:53] Kenny Lange: are there some core areas that you, in, in your experience and, and with the, the coaching [00:23:00] consulting you do now that you're like, these are some of the core gaps that I see.

[00:23:05] People aren't prepared, they aren't planning, they aren't even a simple let's formally acknowledge that this could affect us. And, and even just have an outline or, simple. That would be our response. It may not be a detailed, like crisis response plan in a handbook, but at least have something where, where most often are those gaps occurring for nonprofits or, or even the family foundations.

[00:23:30] Dawn Franks: So at the, at the nonprofit level a lot of times organizations just simply don't. Stop to talk through. What if a particular funding source goes away? And it doesn't matter whether it's state and federal funding or it's a grant, you know, it could be that there's a, a foundation that is significant supporter year over year of the work that the [00:24:00] organization does, but sometimes funders just up and decide to do things differently.

[00:24:06] And in very unexpected ways, there's, they don't announce it. Very seldom do they announce it. And so once an organization is getting, I don't know, say 25% or more of their funding from that one particular source, I would say it is a really good idea to have a conversation about what if we lost that 25% source?

[00:24:30] It wouldn't matter what it is. What would we do and how would we address it? So,

[00:24:36] Kenny Lange: Is that a good benchmark for nonprofits? Because it gets talked about whether 20 to 25% in mo in a lot of the business books and stuff that I've read or conversations I've had is don't let any one, one client or source account for more than this, because I. It creates a dependency that could, if they changed it like that, like you said then it, then that [00:25:00] produces a lot of instability in your organization.

[00:25:02] So is, is 25% a good rule of thumb? I know there's no pers, no

[00:25:06] Dawn Franks: Yeah. The 20 to 25%, like you said, is probably, a very safe in the business world. A business is lucky to get anywhere from 10 to 20% that's actually profit after the net comes out. So for those of us that work just. Ourselves. It's not very different.

[00:25:25] You're, you're hoping to break even and cover all your expenses, your living experiences, your family expenses, whatever they are, and you hope for a little bit of over and above. So that, those numbers are, I think, pretty similar. The, regardless of who we're talking about. From the private foundation side of it, I think ha a private foundation board having a conversation about whether or not their funding focus, if they have focus areas, whether that needs to be broadened or changed. And that is going on right now all [00:26:00] over the country with very large foundations that fund things that are having to take a look at what they fund.

[00:26:07] To, to make decisions about whether they're going to ramp up and in some areas to absorb the change that they see coming from the federal level. that's leading to a lot of very important conversation that sometimes foundation boards don't have, but it's important that they have it.

[00:26:24] Kenny Lange: I'm, I'm curious, what percentage of nonprofits do you think have a funding source that accounts for over 25% of their annual funding? I.

[00:26:37] Dawn Franks: What percentage? Oh gosh. Yeah. I would have, I would really be guessing. I know out there,

[00:26:44] Kenny Lange: yeah. Do you think it's the majority.

[00:26:50] Dawn Franks: I am gonna say it's, I'm not gonna say it's more than 50%, but I'm gonna say it's somewhere between 35 and 50%. It's still a broad, broad range, but it's a [00:27:00] significant number be because as nonprofits get going, if they can find fairly large buckets to draw from. They tend to get reliant on those and they they ignore the importance of growing the base of individual donors, which can be what gets you through super challenging situations like this.

[00:27:26] Kenny Lange: I, I would think, finding those, whether it could be foundations which are, are sort of personal, but sort of like a grant, more like a, an institution granting something funds, but people who really are connected with passionate about the mission. 'cause I, I, I wouldn't say even if you're getting funds from state or federal it's not necessarily like their, their.

[00:27:50] Passionate, connected with it. There was that was part of legislation or something else. Therefore, they're, they're obligated to have a [00:28:00] submission and deadline and all the, the logistics that come with it. But the people who really are like. Yes, absolutely. We love this, we care about this, we wanna make a difference in this way.

[00:28:12] It sounds like those, those are the people that get you through the tough times, that they, they may be more stable, dependable sources of funding. And so it sounds like it might be a better idea for nonprofits to really lean into acquiring, expanding, retaining those sources as opposed to. Just not that, that, that we'll just call government at whatever level, government level of funding is bad but maybe not as dependable.

[00:28:43] Dawn Franks: Yeah, if you looked across the country, there's probably less than 30% of the nonprofits across the country that actually get. Say federal funding a little bit more. They might get state funding, but it, it includes some pass through Fed dollars. But the [00:29:00] reality is most nonprofit organizations are relatively small.

[00:29:05] They rely on the local community, whether it's their special event driven or they are individual donors. The United Ways across the country, making a big difference there. Corporate support at, at any rate, really and truly, there's a lot for most organizations, it's, it's the community that gets them through anyway.

[00:29:30] And they're going,

[00:29:32] Kenny Lange: community, right? Like most small businesses have less than five people in them. And that makes up 90% of businesses in the us.

[00:29:40] Dawn Franks: Yes, and, and so part of what is a little concerning here is that those. Small nonprofit organizations that are very community oriented, both in their services and in their donor support or not what I would consider terribly sophisticated in their [00:30:00] management or their, their board leadership or governance.

[00:30:03] But they have what they need, it works for them. They have what they need. The larger nonprofits. That can get funding from the federal government or from the state, or a little more organized, stronger boards. Stronger leadership may have more. No more people in the community now when they start hitting their local foundations for funding because they're losing dollars. The competition just ramped up at a very,

[00:30:36] A very unlevel playing field.

[00:30:38] Kenny Lange: Because they've, they've got the, the resources to apply more places. They've probably,

[00:30:45] Dawn Franks: They know more people.

[00:30:46] Kenny Lange: they've got the political, I say political capital just as relate, maybe a substitute relational capital.

[00:30:52] Dawn Franks: Yes, yes.

[00:30:54] Kenny Lange: to which, you can go back to I don't like the saying, but the, your network [00:31:00] is your net worth sort of thing.

[00:31:02] I, I mean that, that plays in both for-profit, non-profit

[00:31:05] Dawn Franks: Yes, yes it does.

[00:31:07] Kenny Lange: is almost as if not more important than what you know. I've certainly, I've been on both sides of that, benefited and been not, I'll just say not benefited from that. So. They've entered the fray into the communities. What can these smaller nonprofits do or how should they be thinking?

[00:31:30] And that's probably the better question because I want to, you mentioned the biggest shift is the mindset shift that that needs to happen, right? You gotta be aligned with your reality. Like we can, we can. Complain and bemoan changes outside of our control all day. And, and that's, that's just life.

[00:31:52] What is the mindset shift? These maybe s smaller nonprofits that are, they're trying to, they're [00:32:00] trying to come up, right? They wanna make bigger impact. How can they be shifting that mindset or how should those leaders be thinking about it so that. They are uniquely positioned to be supported by individuals, foundations, organizations that truly care about their cause.

[00:32:22] Dawn Franks: This is why I love the, the name of your podcast, how Leaders Think, because size does not keep you from having a really robust thinking style. Okay, so just

[00:32:39] Kenny Lange: I'll, I'll pay you the $20 for that endorsement later.

[00:32:41] Dawn Franks: okay. Just because you're a small nonprofit doesn't mean that you can't carve out time on your agenda to think about the future.

[00:32:51] we tend to think that the organizations with larger, stronger boards, they're gonna be more business-like, more business-minded, and they're gonna do all that. There's nothing to [00:33:00] keep the very small nonprofits from emulating. And modeling after what a larger nonprofit does. And if they will do that, then they will take some really important steps forward.

[00:33:14] That will help them to not just be more prepared for what changes might happen, but how to be more assertive, more outgoing, more confident, more intentional about how they go about making their services known just to, not just to those who need the services, but to those who support organizations that are providing those services.

[00:33:37] Kenny Lange: This makes me think a lot of, like with my first company, which was a digital marketing agency. But I do some of this work now a around positioning like businesses because obviously we're, we're in a capitalistic society and it's like survival of, of the fittest. Which by the way, I, I like and appreciate and, and it does [00:34:00] give the smaller guys and gals a fighting chance to like, if you really get it right and level up your skills, you too could go and launch a business that that provides, puts food on the table.

[00:34:12] Maybe it's not a billion dollar unicorn, but you could do that. But and I know you and I have have talked a little bit about this of just, amongst nonprofit coaches, consultants, professionals, how do you stand out and not say this is, basically become a commodity? How can nonprofits stand out and say, here's the unique place in our community.

[00:34:36] 'cause most of 'em, like you said, they're starting out, they're very local, geo geographically focused on a particular problem. Now, that problem may exist somewhere else. But they're focused on this first community that they live in, of initially. S So that is a marketing te technically speaking, it could be a marketing thing.

[00:34:54] I put it on a strategic plan that I coach my clients and other people on is you, you've gotta [00:35:00] know what you're the only at. There's something called an onlyness statement, which comes from Marty Newmeyers book zag. So if you wanna go and pick that up, it's a really fast read. For, for anybody listening we'll put a link to it in the, in the show notes.

[00:35:14] But, that's the part that I have found in talking to nonprofits that they, they struggle just like any other business, but sometimes feels like maybe they have, they feel less of an impetus to really nail that down to which I respond. I was like, nobody owes you money. Based on the passion you have for your cause that you have to have that, don't get me wrong, it's on you to clearly tell that story and for that story to stick out amongst all the other millions of stories out there.

[00:35:51] Would you agree or disagree with that? Obviously I'm newer into, into the community and the world so you may be like, alright, young pup, calm down. And [00:36:00] that's cool too. But is that, is that sort of like what you're seeing, what you're getting at or, or even what with all of your work with. Philanthropists and people trying to get funding that you're like, you've, you've gotta tell something unique.

[00:36:11] You've gotta not just be another me too nonprofit. Oh yeah, we also help those people. Then I'll give my dollars to the, to the one that's bigger. 'cause they're more noticeable and it seems like they're quote unquote, better run, even though you and I both know that's not necessarily the case.

[00:36:26] Dawn Franks: the challenge for the philanthropist that is not well understood by nonprofits is how easily we're confused. and I'll use children's services as an example. If I ask you what's the difference in your local court appointed special advocates and your children's advocacy center, both having the word advocate or advocacy in their title, would you be able, would you know what the difference is?

[00:36:56] Well, Then you'd say well, no, maybe I, they sound [00:37:00] really similar, so I'm not gonna look at their mission statement. Now look at their mission statement. And they're both serving children. They're both going to court somehow or another. they're both trying to deal with abusive situations for children.

[00:37:14] But the truth is in between those two agencies, one of 'em works in the civil court and one of 'em works in the criminal court. so

[00:37:21] Kenny Lange: know that from just the initial stuff you might find in a brochure or the website?

[00:37:27] Dawn Franks: Yeah. And so a lot of times, many times nonprofit organizations describe or frame what they do without a real understanding of how similar they sound to two or three other nonprofits in the community. And so when you talk about telling a story, I mean marketing. Understanding marketing is really a big deal to making sure that you are telling your story in a way, as you [00:38:00] said, that's not only unique, but is clear and does away with the blur because what philanthropists do when the picture is blurred, it is just back away.

[00:38:13] Kenny Lange: It's it, it could be blurry or there's just, you're like, I've got six organizations. They all that, they all seem to do the same thing.

[00:38:20] Dawn Franks: Gotta pick who, who do I have lunch with? Who do I,

[00:38:24] Kenny Lange: Right, and um, I

[00:38:25] Dawn Franks: see at church every, every week.

[00:38:27] Kenny Lange: It, then it becomes just like a recency bias. You pick the path, the least resistance at some point because decision fatigue sets in.

[00:38:35] You're worn out and you're like, this one seems like the best candidate. Or, I, you know what I liked the, the lunch where I had tacos better than the one where I had spaghetti. I'm going with the taco person, like it become, it, it may, I know that that's a, a comical example, but that probably has happened at least once.

[00:38:54] Um, Just for the record, if you want any of, of my limited resources for your [00:39:00] nonprofit tacos over spaghetti, just putting that out there. But, no, I, I, I love that. 'cause I, I do something similar, whether it's with a, a mission statement or when I do work with core values there's almost a tendency it is across any organization.

[00:39:17] But I think I. Nonprofits fall victim to this more often. Patrick Lencioni says that there are like three, like core values traps is that they're, they're aspirational, they're not. They're who we would love to be, but aren't currently today, which is not the right place for values their permission to play.

[00:39:34] So, I tease this and, and step on toes intentionally, but like we value honesty and integrity. And I'm like, yeah, but do you think that anybody else values lying and duplicitousness no, they don't. So yes, of course we want honesty and integrity. Or they, if you're nonprofit or organization's, been around for a while.

[00:39:54] They're the ones that no longer serve you. Like we were this at the beginning. We've grown up since then, like maybe we've been in business 20 [00:40:00] years. Our, the values should reflect our current state, but what usually gets people is if I wiped your logo off of your core values or your mission statement and took it into, say, like in your example, like the between those, those two entities.

[00:40:17] And I walked in and I said, Hey, is this your mission? Are these your values? And I was like, how likely are they to say, okay, yeah, that's ours. That's totally ours. I was like then they're not uniquely yours. And don't tell the story of you. It just sounds like word salad, that it doesn't sound bad, but it sounds like everybody else.

[00:40:40] And then you become noise instead of signal.

[00:40:43] Dawn Franks: Mm-hmm.

[00:40:44] Kenny Lange: I say that knowing full well how difficult it is to unearth what makes you different. I, I'm still wrestling with this to, for my own, for my own coaching practice. And by the way, it's so much easier for me to do this. I I could do it in 10 seconds for another entity, [00:41:00] but it'll take me 10 years to figure it out for myself, and I really hate that.

[00:41:03] But where, where do people lean in, two, I've gotta distinguish myself, and I think that this trickles all the way back to the beginning of our conversation, which is there's instability in funding currently in our country. There's a lot of fear and uncertainty. You're gonna have to your, your people, groups, teams grant writers, grant makers, everybody's reconsidering.

[00:41:27] Where do we apply? Where do we diversify our sources of, of funding and revenue and income? Now we've got to go out and tell our story and not only do we have to be compelling in new markets or to to new people we might also be going up against some, some pretty established heavy hitters. And, and so I think it is an opportunity.

[00:41:52] I think everything's an opportunity, right? Like you can choose ah, poor me or opportunity for me to learn and grow and do something different and innovate. [00:42:00] If somebody said, is facing this what, what you've said today really resonates with them, they're like, yeah, Don, that's, that's me. We we're, we're overbooked on this particular source.

[00:42:11] We don't, we don't feel certain that it'll continue. But we don't wanna wait to find out, how do people start planning and, and telling their story? 'cause I think we had a couple of of great ideas in here, but someone wants to take action. They're spurred, they're, maybe they're a board member, they could be an executive director next 24 hours with little to no money.

[00:42:32] How could they get started towards building a more secure future for themselves?

[00:42:38] Dawn Franks: So I think that the nonprofit executive director and or the president should grab each other. down and have a conversation about how are we going to work this conversation into our very next agenda in order to. At least get the [00:43:00] board to begin thinking that we need to plan for our future in a little bit more intentional way than we have been.

[00:43:09] And that it's the board's responsibility to do that. We can't just rely on the executive director to come and tell us where all the funding op opportunities are. So we have to lean in as a board to think this through. So. I think the, the most immediate next step is find the other person on that board that one or the other need to be talking to, and then figure out how to get it on the media agenda.

[00:43:36] From there I think that in the. Philanthropy world, that foundations that are realizing that it's possible, they'll see more requests than they ever have. That in a similar way, they need to not just wait till the end of the year to make all [00:44:00] their decisions. They may need to, because it's not unusual, especially for very small.

[00:44:04] Foundations to do that. They may need to carve out time now to make some plans about what they will fund or not fund, or whether they're gonna have some emergency funding that they're gonna utilize for nonprofits. A real important question that pri that private family. Foundations have to, or they often wrestle with is whether they'll, during situations like this, dip into their assets or they're only going to give the required amount that the IRS requires.

[00:44:36] Really large foundations have those conversations much more often. Simply because of the level of their assets and because of the level of planning and thinking that they do, small foundations simply need to do similar work and go ahead and ask themselves some of those same questions so that everybody in a particular community can be [00:45:00] prepared for how to work together on all of this.

[00:45:03] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:45:04] Dawn Franks: I it's just like the saying that all politics is local. I, I know it's messy what's going on in Washington DC right now, but the truth of the matter is what we do right here in the community we live in, or where your listeners are living, what's happening in their communities right now and their response and how to act and react to all of this together is the solution not waiting.

[00:45:28] Kenny Lange: Yeah, taking that, the sort of proactive. Approach and truth be told, for most people, what happens at the local level will affect their day-to-day lives far more than, than certain things that may happen at the, at the federal level. Not that it doesn't, but a may, maybe a greater, more immediate impact at at that local level, like where you're living.

[00:45:50] Don this, this was a, a great conversation and I think we could have kept, kept going. And, and we'll just save those for, for next episodes. But I do wanna [00:46:00] highlight the fact you, you have two books. If anybody is, is interesting in, in reading and learning more from Don. And, and if you don't, then what's wrong with you?

[00:46:10] Talk about those two books and then if somebody would love to connect with you, learn more about you and, and your work and your consulting practice where where you'd send them

[00:46:18] Dawn Franks: So yes, there are two books. One of them is The Gift of Giving, which is a book that can be bought at by website, dawn@dawnfranks.com. It's about exploring your stories and your own personal giving legacy regardless of whether you have a lot to give or just a little bit to give.

[00:46:35] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:35] Dawn Franks: The second book is giving Fingerprints, and it is an ebook, which is free and available again at the website and for anybody to be able to download and, and look at. I have a personal belief

[00:46:51] Kenny Lange: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:51] Dawn Franks: that we all have unique giving attributes. Which is what I call fingerprints. And when you put all [00:47:00] of those, those values together of what is important to us about our giving, that that once we know those, we can sharpen and be our giving and be more impactful.

[00:47:10] And so those books are targeted toward that, that message.

[00:47:17] Kenny Lange: Which I really like. And that was, how we, how we met was going through the exercise of understanding that it really is fantastic. So, y'all go download the books. We'll, we'll have the links and everything in the show notes. I. You mentioned your email address don@donfranks.com. And then we'll also have your, your LinkedIn profile connected up there.

[00:47:35] So if anybody wants to reach out and be your LinkedIn friend it's just, oh, sorry. Connection. It's a business platform, whatever. But thank you so much. I hope to have you, you back in the future listeners, if, if you made it this far. Thank you. This, I, I hope you really enjoyed the conversation and got something out of it.

[00:47:51] And you're actually gonna take action on what Don instructed 'cause I want to entertain you. 'cause we don't need boring podcasts. But I also want this to be something that gives you [00:48:00] ideas for how to improve your leadership and your journey. One way you can pay that forward is by liking, rating, reviewing, subscribing engagement helps this show up.

[00:48:10] To more people in more places. And your simple act could help somebody stumble across this at the, at just the right moment and unlock the next step on their journey. And so it's a, it's a free and easy way for you to pay it forward. And won't that feel good, just like down in your heart and your soul, your gut, I don't know, wherever you feel things.

[00:48:28] But until next time, change the way you think. You'll change the way you lead. We'll see you