How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Brian Brandt [00:00:00]:
We had the lessons at the local coffee shop, breakfast place and reading, and now we put them into action. I would consider it a strength of mine, but it was certainly a skill that I lacked for the first significant part of my life.

Kenny Lange [00:00:18]:
You welcome to the how leaders think podcast, a show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I'm your host, Kenny Lang, and with me today is the Brian Brandt. He is the president and founder of Core Insights. He holds a master's degree in global leadership, so he might run for president and a bachelor's degree in accounting, which there's probably a good story behind that. He's an expert in communication, leadership and staff and board engagement, and has worked with countless organizations across the country. He's also co authored two books. I highly recommend them. Blind spots, what you don't know can all caps hurt you and the ambassador's journey, which is a parable about nonprofit board leadership.

Kenny Lange [00:01:03]:
Welcome to the show, Brian.

Brian Brandt [00:01:05]:
All right, Kenny, thank you so much for having me on and excited to get this party started.

Kenny Lange [00:01:11]:
It should be a party indeed, especially if I didn't turn off my reactions and my apples. Sometimes if I do like this, then we'll get like confetti coming down. So just be prepared. It can be a little bit of a wild ride. So tell me, Brian, what is on.

Brian Brandt [00:01:28]:
Your know a lot about planning? And I'd say that a lot of times this time of year, end of the year is when we're at right now and thinking a lot about planning. A lot of people are requesting some strategic planning and those kinds of things for the following year. Right now, I'm working on updating a ten year plan for myself and then also getting more granular for my own 2024. And so a lot's on my mind related to planning. And a lot of times I'll say creating the life we want. And so that is something that I've been thinking a lot about, and I really believe it. And at the same time, I'm kind of wrestling with the fact that trouble is sure to come to all of us in some way at some time. And so it's the best laid plans, that kind of mindset.

Brian Brandt [00:02:32]:
But I've been wrestling with that, and I still believe that having that discipline to plan and execute is important. But when I get some pushback about, well, things happen. I mean, last week I'm an early bird, Kenny, God bless you. You there with me?

Kenny Lange [00:02:52]:
No. I've tried to be, and I have been in certain seasons, but I don't know what it is. Maybe it's kids. I just make me like, I got to get up and get them to school, right?

Brian Brandt [00:03:04]:
Yeah. And I will say we could do a whole podcast on seasons of life, too, but preach. I was driving in early to the office, which is kind of my practice pretty often, and it was probably 545 in the morning and I saw a significant accident and I thought that early in the morning somebody probably was on the receiving end of a bad decision by another driver and they had plans to get to the office early too, probably. And here is this significant disruption. And so there are those disruptions that happen, and we need to be mindful that that's going to happen at some point in our very, very likely. But yet I think planning is important. And I will say in there, Kenny, that I haven't been a lifelong planner. I didn't grow up with that mindset.

Brian Brandt [00:04:08]:
That's been more of an acquired skill than a natural ability, for sure.

Kenny Lange [00:04:15]:
Gotcha. Well, that gives me hope because the planning isn't always my forte, at least personally. I'm really good at helping other people do it, but not as much for myself. Kind of a cobbler's kids without shoes situation, right?

Brian Brandt [00:04:31]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:04:32]:
Now you brought up several different things, and one of my favorite quotes on planning is from the great philosopher Mike Tyson, which is everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. But when you talk about that, and obviously in your profession, you're called in to help develop those strategic plans. Like you said, you're working on it for yourself and your company and helping others. But if everybody was doing this, like probably you and I may not have much of a job, if everybody was just naturally doing that, believed in it and was working on it, what have you seen in the marketplace in your years of experience that leads people to not step into designing the life, the business, the organization they want, when there's so much studies and proof now of the benefits of it. So what's still so strong in the thinking in the.

Brian Brandt [00:05:28]:
You know, my speculation, Kenny, would be that some of it is a lack of a role model. They haven't seen it. They haven't seen it done, and they haven't seen it done personally or professionally. I think some of it is probably that. It's just they haven't really given it the consideration and a lot of decisions are made with them in mind what's in it for me? And they may not see the real benefit and really go, why does it matter? What's it going to do for me. And then I would say some of it, I mean, quite frankly, is probably a little bit of laziness or laissez fair. Well, what's got me here has worked well enough, but yet a lot of times people are, they are frustrated with their current spot in life. And I would propose that if they would have planned ten years ago, they might be in a little better place.

Kenny Lange [00:06:39]:
Yeah. Something I've thought about along these lines and not just planning, but really anybody setting an intention to change the course of how they're living, how they're operating, just, I'm here, but I'd really love to be over. There is sometimes I think people are, they get joy or they are getting something out of complaining or just bemoaning the fact that life is not better. Right. Because you do have agency to change things, to make decisions, to live differently, to engage differently, show up differently, or not at all. Is that something you've come across where maybe people don't do things repeatedly unless they're getting something from it? Is that something that you've ever come across?

Brian Brandt [00:07:32]:
Well, I think so. But I think also you hit on an interesting point that I think a lot of people don't really feel like they have the control they can make the changes that will impact their life. And I think they do feel more reactionary than proactive. And again, I think some of that is in the people they hang around or the mentors or lack thereof, you become the five people you're around the most kind of mentality. And if you look around and everybody's just kind of living life and dealing with what comes at them, then you probably haven't seen anything or experienced anything that is different.

Kenny Lange [00:08:31]:
Yeah, I've seen several posts lately on Instagram where it says, like, if you're around five smokers, you're going to be the six. If you're around like five fit people, you're going to be the six. If you're around five wealthy people, that sort of thing, like it works for and against you. You've mentioned the term and the word mentor quite a lot, and it's one that the idea of mentorship is fascinating. I probably need to sit down and write and get my thoughts together. So this could be a stream of consciousness. But I'm curious, where do you place maybe the word responsibility may or may not be the right one, but say, I am that 6th person and I'm hanging around five people who are not. They are reactionary, they're just taking it as it comes and they're saying, well, because of x, y and z, I'm not able to do this.

Kenny Lange [00:09:29]:
They're creating all these things that give them excuse to not change how life is going for them. Is it on that person or on me to go and say, well, I want something different. I'm going to find a mentor. Or do you see it more as, like, mentors? People who have broken through need to be on the lookout for those people with potential and say, I'm going to pull you up. I have some of my own thoughts that might be convoluted, and you and I could talk about some biblical grounding around that based on some examples in the Bible. But where do you stand as it pertains to mentorship and who's initiating, who's finding who?

Brian Brandt [00:10:14]:
Yeah. So your original question? I'd say the answer is yes, it's on both. But the reality is I think it's more on the person who wants to be mean. You think about it, and I'm going to be kind of extreme on, you know, if I walk into Starbucks right now and I start walking around, know, talking to people, hey, my name is Brian. Would you like me to mentor you? That is probably weird at best and creepy. And again, I'm being a little bit extreme, but I think it can come across as arrogant. If you were to go out going, hey, would you like me to mentor you? But there's probably a place for that. I mean, that really hinges upon the relationship.

Brian Brandt [00:11:09]:
But I think my gut would say that if you took 100 examples, 90 of them probably are and should be the mentee asking the mentor, really seeking somebody out that they trust that has the expertise in a certain area and those kinds of things, I think it will work a lot better. Now, I will say there's probably some times where you go, you know what? That person's probably not going to ask, but we've got enough relationship and I've got some expertise and in those situations going, hey, this is something I've done in the past for others. Would you be interested in that? I think that could work. And could work well.

Kenny Lange [00:12:00]:
Yeah, got you. Yeah. I obviously see the pretentious nature of, hey, I'm wise. Would you like to come? And it could come across weird, but having that eye open, maybe for, do you see somebody who's trying to move in a direction and maybe they're struggling. Obviously there needs to be a relationship. It's not transactional. I don't think a good mentorship relationship is ever really transactional. You used a term designing the life that they want.

Kenny Lange [00:12:33]:
Can you expound on that and what your thinking is around that based on the context of planning and what you're working on?

Brian Brandt [00:12:42]:
Yeah, and I think it fits for a company. I think it fits that be for profit or nonprofit. I think it fits for a department. I think it fits for individuals of really taking some time. And again, that's kind of why, you know, usually what I do, Kenny, is I start in November, just putting notes on my phone as I kind of go along. And then as we get into December, I start to kind of refine that. And then at some point I take a day or two away and really formulate it. But it really is about where do we see ourselves.

Brian Brandt [00:13:25]:
This is one of those where in a lot of my coaching sessions, not all of them, but in a lot of, or I should say with my coaching clients that at some point, and again, it depends on what they're coming to me for coaching for, but a lot of times I'll take a big whiteboard and what's today's date? Where are we? December 7. And so I might say to them, okay, I want you to imagine December 7, 2028. What do you want life to look like? And I want you to think as holistically as possible. Think about physical health, think about relationships, think about career, think about finances, think about your spiritual life. I mean, geographical and just as exhaustive as you can. What do you want life to look like at that point? And then usually I give them a dry erase marker, Kenny, and I say, come on up to the whiteboard. And I walk out. I was like, I'll be back in about 1015 minutes.

Brian Brandt [00:14:33]:
And I just let them go. And then from there, asking some refining questions and all. And usually I say, hey, you know, take the next month to refine this because some know, I'm pretty positive, Kenny, that I can put you on the spot that way and you're great. And other people are going to be more reflective and they need time, but it's a starting place. And then to go from there to go, okay, if that's where you want to be, December 7, 2028. What are some good things for you to plan for and aim for in 2024? And then I just walk them through because it is, again, it's that creating the life you want. And again, I'm kind of wrestling now with roadblocks, obstacles, challenges.

Kenny Lange [00:15:29]:
They're going to come, right?

Brian Brandt [00:15:30]:
But I still am confident that if we do that, it helps us to say these are the things I need to kind of create and arrange. So it may be for some people, it may be a master's degree or finishing a degree or something like that. For other people, it's going to be things like, I need to foster stronger relationships with these people, that kind of stuff. But then it helps us to know what to say yes to and what to say no to. Kenny, when was the last time somebody walked into your office and said, hey, how can I help you accomplish your 2023 goals?

Kenny Lange [00:16:18]:
Yeah, well, I office from home, and I don't feel like my kids are very helpful at all or they don't care about my goals.

Brian Brandt [00:16:25]:
Maybe I'll talk to them soon.

Kenny Lange [00:16:27]:
Probably they would benefit from a session with you. But, yeah, it's not often. I mean, I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of close colleagues that are available when I need it, but they're usually not initiating, saying, hey, you're working on this. What can I do to help you along but to stop and think about it sometimes for myself? I know even though I do this professionally, I'll get so busy focused on, I got to do this next, I got to do this next. Life just moves quickly, and I don't really get my head up to go, oh, yeah, I need to sort of have a spot. I'm picking and connect the dots. And what I feel like I hear you saying is sort of a Stephen Covey of begin with the end in mind. Sort of.

Brian Brandt [00:17:17]:
Absolutely. That's well said, for sure.

Kenny Lange [00:17:21]:
So as you think about that and you're helping others when you're working, say, with a team in particular, like maybe a senior leadership team or department level, higher level team, what are the things you mentioned obstacles, and I think often probably the worst obstacles are the four inches between our ears. But what are some of the common obstacles you see to these high level leadership teams and planning and thinking ahead and really engineering the department, the company life that they want for themselves and the people that they're fortunate to lead.

Brian Brandt [00:18:01]:
Yeah. The number one that, I think is discipline. And it's that discipline to consider our goals regularly, to be mindful of what it takes to execute, and then to consistently go to that and go, this is what we're doing. And this is keeping everybody on track, I guess, and focused on something that's bigger than just the day to day. So that, I think, would be the first one, the first obstacle. And then I think somewhere right in there, pretty close, is trust. And that trust between those senior leaders and that executive team and going, you know, what do I really believe that they're able to execute. Do I really believe that they have the company's best interest in mind, that they're going to be bold and do what it takes? Again, that goes back to discipline, because I think a lot of people will not do what it takes to accomplish these things, whether it's learning a new skill or just pushing ourselves outside of our comfort zone.

Brian Brandt [00:19:20]:
And I don't say that lightly. I mean, just going, you know what I hear. Well, I'm not a very confrontational person. Well, but you're on an executive team, and you've got people that report to you, and they're not perfect. And so oftentimes I'll say in some of my trainings, look at your job description and are there any bullet points that say you just be you? Probably not. To accomplish things, we've got to push ourselves?

Kenny Lange [00:19:54]:
Yeah, that's really good. I'm curious if just because you have so much experience with both for profit and nonprofit teams, do you see any differences between the way those two groups operate? I mean, obviously, there's probably a slightly different mentality between the leaders there, but is there any difference in obstacles and mentality around that?

Brian Brandt [00:20:24]:
I would say not inherently. I think leadership, it's very similar in both places, and that level of strategy and planning and execution and discipline and trust, all of those elements. But I will say, actually, I'll back off of what I was about to say and just say, no, I don't really think there is a significant difference. And I've seen fantastic nonprofits that operate as good or better than some of the best for profits. And if you took that same leadership team and plopped them in a for profit company, they would be equally as successful.

Kenny Lange [00:21:11]:
Wow. Yeah. It's sort of like, well, people are people. I get that question asked of me, like, well, is there a size of company that is too big when you're working with us? I was like, probably not, because there's still people in the company and they're the same. I had a coach tell me once that he went and spoke with, like, 1500, 600 person company. He's like, their problems were the exact same, Kenny. The only difference is their balance sheet had a few more zeros added to the.

Brian Brandt [00:21:44]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:21:46]:
So when trying to develop that discipline and what I feel like it sounds like is sort of the consistency of alignment. Right. We had the big thing because I know it was for me early on in my leadership was to look at there's these big moments as a leader. Like, you're making the speech, you're raw. You're making the big plan, but you would feel like, well, we built this big, beautiful plan. It was perfect and we clearly articulated it. Nobody really had any questions. Everybody got excited.

Kenny Lange [00:22:27]:
What happened to it? It sounds like, from your perspective and experience, is that the magic is really in those smaller moments, that consistency of execution.

Brian Brandt [00:22:39]:
Absolutely. I think it largely comes down to those daily, hourly, weekly disciplines to execute and to focus on what really matters. It's easy to get distracted, but if we are clear on what our priorities are, and I guess that goes a little bit back to what I said about it helps us to know what to say yes to and what to say no to most people. I don't find very many people that have a lot of extra time, and I think that it's easy to get distracted on things that aren't our priorities, that somebody walks in and says, hey, will you do this? And it's not a bad thing, it's probably even a good thing, but is it the best thing and is it really what needs to be focused on how. I'm not intentionally using the word discipline this much, but it's happening. Is just having that discipline to say, that's really Bob's responsibility, or I can't get that to that in the next few days and figure out how to get it done.

Kenny Lange [00:24:02]:
Yeah. It made me think of two sayings. One is a great question that's been helpful for me, is what's mine to do? Is just clarifying, because as leaders, I'm lumping all of us together, I guess, for a moment. But we can tend to think, well, it's all mine to do. We have that driven nature, that ambitious personality a little bit. And we say, like, oh, I want to help there. I want to do that. Nine times out of ten, I'd say it probably comes from a good place of just wanting to be helpful.

Kenny Lange [00:24:37]:
We feel capable, but that's not always the enemy of what's best, is what's good. Right. Like, it's that distraction, like you were saying, and then setting some healthy boundaries with yourself. And almost like I've heard over the years, having a to don't list is as important as having a really good to do list.

Brian Brandt [00:24:59]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:25:01]:
How you mentioned several minutes ago that the. The planning wasn't always natural to you or a part of your regular discipline and habit. What did you do to sort of cultivate that in yourself? Was it going out and finding a coach, finding a system, a framework? Was it piecing it together one little discipline at a time? Because I have to imagine there's probably several visionary type leaders that are just, hey, I'm moving fast and I got big ideas. I'm going to do these things. And I hear what Brian's saying, and it's important, but my God, how do I slow down long enough to add these pieces in to help myself when it feels like it goes so much against the.

Brian Brandt [00:25:50]:
Well? And I share this story in the book, blind spots, that there was a time, and you'll find this part interesting. I was going through leadership, Tyler, and I was working on my master's in global leadership, and I'd taken an assessment that really helped me to pinpoint that I didn't really have vision and planning as part of my leadership skill set. So at this point, I was probably 32 ish, and I just didn't have that kind of growing up. And I didn't have it really, despite being under some great leaders in my first ten years of my career, that just wasn't a part that I gained from them. And so I identified it that it was lacking through an assessment that I took. And then I did, I sought out a mentor. There was a gentleman that I knew that had. His dad was a three star general.

Brian Brandt [00:26:52]:
He had a strong military background. After his military career, he went to med school. Super sharp, but quite the planner and quite the vision kind of guy. And so I asked him to mentor me, and he said yes. Again, I asked him to mentor me specifically on that aspect. Okay, so not just a general. So I was very clear. And so he showed up at our first breakfast with a notebook.

Brian Brandt [00:27:25]:
And I'm not kidding you, it was this thick. For those of you just listening, it was probably about four or five inches. Think of things, of articles and things. And then he signed some books and things like that, but just, we did a lot of reading and a lot of discussion, and then Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, and it turns out that he and I ran a shelter at UT Tyler for Hurricane Katrina evacuees. And that was a place that we really put into place that vision and planning because it was fast. It was basically one day I went to the city and said, hey, if y'all need anybody to lead a shelter, give us a call. It was a group from grace community church. And about 4 hours later, they called and said, all right, we've got a shelter.

Brian Brandt [00:28:22]:
And we had no manual, we had no background, we had no experience. And I would say we ran a great shelter. And I give so much credit to Scott for the way we did that, but that helped me to see it. We had the lessons at the local coffee shop, breakfast place, and reading, and now we put them into is. I would consider it a strength of mine, but it was certainly a skill that I lacked for the first significant part of my life.

Kenny Lange [00:29:01]:
Yeah, it sounds like a lot of effort goes into acquiring the skill, especially if it's not one you just naturally are gifted at, because you can sort of take those for granted at different times. So if someone's listening and they're saying, hey, yeah, I'd love to think more about planning or just cultivating something in myself. I think there's lots of great little nuggets sprinkled throughout what you had to say. But if somebody's wanting to get started with that initial baby step, next 24 hours, to start moving towards being more intentional, designing the life they want and planning what they want to have happen maybe in the next year, three years, five years, what advice would you give them to get started on that path?

Brian Brandt [00:29:55]:
Yeah, so I would say get away to a place where you're not going to be interrupted much and how people get motivated. Lots of different thoughts about that, but I'd say, bottom line, get you a big old piece of paper and ask yourself that question, what do you want life to look like? And I think depending upon stage of life, if you're early in your career or late in your career, five years is probably great. If you're in the middleish stage of your career, ten years is better. But if that's too daunting, then I'd say go back to five. Okay, but don't go less than five. It'd be real attempting. So again, what do you want life to look like five years from now? And then once you've done that, bounce it off some people and then go, okay, well then what should happen in 2024? Unless you're listening to this in 2026 and don't do that. So what should the next year look like?

Kenny Lange [00:31:01]:
2020 x just number there.

Brian Brandt [00:31:04]:
So basically, what's this next season look like? And just keep breaking it down and going, okay, well, then this is what I need to do. Over the years, Kenny, the number of times people said to need, I feel like for my career to go, well, I need to go back and finish my degree. And so I'll say, well, what's the next step? And they kind of get a little bit of pause there. And I'm like, well, do you know how many credit hours you currently have? And they're like, no. I go, okay, so maybe contacting the college you left that'd be a good start. And then going, okay, where might you go to school? Meeting with, getting on campus, meeting with the registrar or an advisor. Advisor, probably better. And just those two steps, it gets you off being stuck and it typically goes better after that.

Brian Brandt [00:32:05]:
But what's that next step kind of thing got you.

Kenny Lange [00:32:10]:
Love that. If somebody wanted to know more about you core insights, your work or your books and your content, where would you send them?

Brian Brandt [00:32:20]:
I'd go to the website coreinsightsleadership.com or go to my LinkedIn. It's Brian kbrandt and that's B-R-A-N-D-T-I think those are probably two best places to go. And yeah, would love to engage and discuss any of this further. We do a lot of coaching, a lot of strategic planning, but we do even more training both on the for profit and nonprofit side.

Kenny Lange [00:32:51]:
Excellent. And we're going to link all that up in the show notes along with links to your books, blind spots and the ambassadors journey. Again, those are fantastic resources to go get some really cool thinking. One is a parable and it's a great story because I've cracked it open trying to, trying to hurry up and learn. Well, Brian, thank you so much for being a guest. I hope this isn't the last time that we have you on to share some of your wisdom with us.

Brian Brandt [00:33:18]:
Well, Kenny, it's my pleasure. Thanks and always appreciate you. And just the way you push and prod and ask good questions that help really formulate some neat thoughts and ideas.

Kenny Lange [00:33:31]:
Thank you. I like to tell people I get paid to do what got me in trouble in school. And for all you listeners, thank you so much for taking a little time out of your day. If you got value out of this, would appreciate a review, a like a share, whatever it is, help more people find this and get the help that they need. We want to help as many leaders as humanly possible. But until next time, remember, change the way you think. You'll change the way you lead. We'll see you.