How Leaders Think with Kenny Lange

Alec Broadfoot [00:00:00]:
The moment you realize you have to micromanage someone is the moment you hire the wrong person. When I see micromanagers, I. I say, okay, is it the wrong person that you're managing or do you have an issue with trust?

Kenny Lange [00:00:18]:
Welcome to the how leaders think podcast, the show that transforms you by renewing your mind and giving you new ways to think. I am your host, Kenny Lang, and with me today is the Alec Broadfoot. He is the CEO and founder of Vision Spark. So it's bound to be electric. He leads visionspark, which is a consulting firm that has successfully completed over 200 number two leader searches for entrepreneurial companies. That's a lot because those are some tough people to place, many of whom run on EOs or the entrepreneurial operating system. And dozens of searches for other key team members. With a 98% placement rate, that's very high.

Kenny Lange [00:00:59]:
Vision Spark is recognized in 2023's Inc. 5000 list as one of the fastest growing companies in the country, which is amazing. And he is also a member of Strategic Coach, a sought after speaker, and the author of the number one Amazon bestseller, hiring your right number two leader, which is over his shoulder if you're watching online. Welcome to the show, Alec.

Alec Broadfoot [00:01:25]:
Great to be here, Kenny.

Kenny Lange [00:01:27]:
I, I'm really excited about this. We were talking beforehand about some exciting things that you've had going and, and hopefully they'll make some, some appearances throughout. But tell me today, Alec, what is on your mind so that the concept.

Alec Broadfoot [00:01:42]:
Of the leadership lid or the law of the lid principle. Have you ever heard of that?

Kenny Lange [00:01:46]:
John Maxwell and the, the 21 irrefutable laws. I forgot what number it is. That would be really impressive if I remembered.

Alec Broadfoot [00:01:52]:
But that is impressive because that book's a good 20 years old now, right?

Kenny Lange [00:01:57]:
Yeah, I think I was in diapers. No, I'm just kidding.

Alec Broadfoot [00:02:00]:
Yeah. So that whole, that whole concept has been on my mind the last few days and I think it's going to be part of another book down the road. The, the core idea is that the, the lid of a leader is going to. Is going to be the lid for that organization or the team. So if a leader is a 5 out of 10, then that whoever they lead, their ability is not going to be more than a 5 out of 10 for that organization. But if their ability is a 9 out of 10, then that organization and the people they lead, they have the potential to be a 9 out of 10.

Kenny Lange [00:02:42]:
Yeah. It's funny as I actually was, I feel like I've mentioned the law of the lid multiple times recently. So it's a good, it's a very timely topic. Now mentioning if, if a leader, we'll just say the, the visionary, the senior most leader is, is a 5 out of 10. Have you seen where a. Someone who might be that, that number two or another senior leader on the 10 or on the team comes in and maybe they're a 7 or an 8 out of 10. There's a tension there where the person they report to actually sits lower on their, their capacity, their current capacity or capabilities than people reporting to them. Can you talk a little bit about that tension?

Alec Broadfoot [00:03:28]:
Yeah, I think it's number one, it's, it's great to have a number two that has a very strong leadership potential and a lot of visionaries, entrepreneurs. We're a little bit better at being leaders than we are at being managers. I guess it can be attention if, more of attention if the visionary is insecure about their abilities. Right. But if they are secure in their unique ability as Dan Sullivan calls it and what they're great at, what they're passionate about, how they can make the biggest impact, then they have their number two that runs their A company. And that's where you want a really good leader. You want a leader who is an 8, 9, 10.

Kenny Lange [00:04:06]:
Gotcha. Now I'm always thinking about if something needs to be said, then there's, there's something to it. The, the fact that we have to say please don't operate a chainsaw in the bathtub or something like that, like all these weird warnings that we have that means someone somewhere thought what this bathtub, this bath experience needs a good chainsaw. So when we think about the law of the lid and we, and we have to, it has to be explained, it has to be at this point memorialized and probably one of the most read leadership books on the planet. From your perspective and the research and all the leaders that you work with, what is the current thinking or prevailing wisdom that makes having to educate people on that law a worthwhile endeavor?

Alec Broadfoot [00:04:58]:
Yeah. So I, the current thinking is, is that if you train or leaders get more better leadership skills that they can increase their leadership ability. And I think there's some flaw to that thinking. I think there's only, sometimes there's only so much training that someone can do, but it's still not going to help them go from a 5 to a 10. Maybe it helped them go from 5 to a 6 or a 7 to an 8, but, but it's that, that innate ability, as we evaluate thousands of candidates, we can tell who has strong leadership potential based on our evaluations and oftentimes it's sad that we see these candidates that have incredible resumes but they've been in the wrong position most of their career really. And we, we know that based on our valuation of them. Yeah. So I, I, I think yes.

Alec Broadfoot [00:05:50]:
Can you have your leaders be better leaders? Yes. But can you, can you assume that they're going to grow drastically by training them and developing them? Probably not.

Kenny Lange [00:06:01]:
Yeah. And I, I've heard from, from some other people as well in terms of that the 1 to 10 scale is that your upward mobility it that you don't make leaps, you just, you take steps. Now with all the assessments, evaluations and research that, that you and VisionSpark have done, what does that gap look like and how can as leaders are either. I imagine a bunch of people right now are self evaluating themselves and they're like am I a 5 or am I a 9? Like where am I? I was like, I was feeling pretty good before I was listening to Kenny and Alec. But fear not, the episode's not over. But how, how can people start to see what maybe where they're at and maybe what that gap is in terms of that potential? Because potential is a word or capacity is a word that gets thrown around quite a lot. But I don't think in my experience people do a great job of saying what that is and what that looks like and how we can actually step into it.

Alec Broadfoot [00:07:06]:
Yeah. So like organizations where there's not a lot of change. So if you have a leader that maybe has 20 years experience in the industry and they're in your company and your company is on cruise control, you're not like growing by super high growth rates. You have, it's systematized. All the, the playbook is, is all processed and you just have to manage that. I think that leader can do a great job and they can, they can improve their leadership ability. So I have indispensable traits of every leader. So whether we're helping a client hire a second command integrator number two or other leadership traits, we look at these seven indispensable traits.

Alec Broadfoot [00:07:46]:
The first one is they need to be a strategic thinker. And this is where I think my belief is, this is where there's high potential. So we measure, when we evaluate our candidates for our clients, we measure their mental acuity. Okay. So it's on a 1 to 9 scale, it should be 1 to 10, but it's 1 to 9 and individuals who are in that upper range 6 7, 8, 9 have huge potential to be strong leaders. They are strategic thinkers. Their learning style is more conceptual. They're great problem solvers, and it doesn't require them to have tons of experience for them to be effective leaders.

Alec Broadfoot [00:08:27]:
Does that make sense?

Kenny Lange [00:08:28]:
Oh, 1, 100%. Just that, that ability to figure things out. Right?

Alec Broadfoot [00:08:34]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:08:34]:
Okay.

Alec Broadfoot [00:08:35]:
And some of the other, other, other indispensable traits are they really need to be organized. And so we measure that trait as well. And what I mean by organization is that they're, they have the ability to prepare, anticipate, be proactive. A lot of visionaries like me are like, hey, what's, what's scheduled today? Oh, oh, Kenny Lang. That podcast is today where someone who's a planner of the podcast with Kenny Lang is 30 days from now. And I'm working on getting, preparing for it ahead of time. They're good planners. They, they can sort through things, they can prioritize.

Alec Broadfoot [00:09:05]:
Another one is they're process oriented. Right. They have the ability to create processes, implement processes. They're a team player. They love people, great communicators. And then they love to coach and lead and, and, and manage people. And then the last one we were talking before we went live is fit. Right? They, they have to fit with the culture, with their hiring manager.

Alec Broadfoot [00:09:26]:
So those are the indispensable traits of leaders that we see.

Kenny Lange [00:09:32]:
I think that's phenomenal. I also love that you call them indispensable because I think that there are, there's a way that you can be who you were created to be, how you're wired and all those things. And your expression, I think, is fair to say your expression of those seven may look a little different. Right. There's a flavor to each of those, but at the core, you're, you're strategic in your thinking. You're, you're organized, you're a team player. You're, you're a fit for the, the culture. Which, that, that's a, that's a big one.

Kenny Lange [00:10:02]:
And one. I talk to a lot of people about if some, if someone wants to, to think through these seven traits and maybe they feel like they're, they're coming up short on one of them. Something I see a lot, and I'm curious if, if you and your team do. Is a lot of people will just blow off the thing that's missing as well. I didn't need it anyway. Right. There's no sense in developing that because there's some cognitive dissonance that they would rather just dismiss. How are, are you and your team stepping into those situations where that, that may just be a self awareness issue, which is, I have to imagine, woven into some part, part of the fabric of, of those seven, how are you addressing the self awareness issues that may be facing a leader who is trying to grow or maybe thinks that they're already the perfection of leadership?

Alec Broadfoot [00:10:59]:
Yeah. So there, there's an assessment tool that will measure that. And so once they learn and they can see it and it'll make sense to them. Many ways we would say, focus on your strengths, develop your strengths, be, be strong where you're strong. Right. And, but like you said, it's self awareness. And then if it's possible, can you hire someone to support you in that area? For example, I'm not the most organized person, but I have, I have my number two, John, who runs the company, and I have my assistant Courtney, who she manages my calendar and time and email. So if it's possible to hire, to hire where you may be weak.

Kenny Lange [00:11:41]:
Yeah. And the, but the beginning of that is that, that self awareness. So having an assessment, having something that's a little irrefutable, like it's in numbers, it's on the report. You, you're like, there's. This isn't bad or, or good. It's just the current state of reality. Is that fair to say?

Alec Broadfoot [00:11:58]:
Yeah, it's the current state of reality. And, and sometimes what happens is like, oh my goodness, I've not been happy in this role as a manager. What, what do you recommend? And, and so we look at their strengths and say we've seen people like you be successful at X or Y. A quick story. We had a client, we helped them find a number two and the owner was just thrilled with our work. Called me back and is that assessment tool you used, can I use it on someone internally? I'm like, absolutely. He's like, well, my nephew, you know, he's, he's currently in IT and I'm thinking about promoting him to cfo. What do you think? And so we had him take the assessment and I looked at the results and I'm like, oh my gosh, you have an incredible salesperson here.

Alec Broadfoot [00:12:46]:
Like this person would kill it in sales and potentially has potential to be a sales manager or VP of sales, like, you know, as a younger dude. But he was hitting, his scores were off the chart and he had no business being in it and he would be bored as a cfo and so he put him in sales and, and end up increasing their market share and, and the rest is history. It's a pretty cool, pretty cool self. Self assessment tool.

Kenny Lange [00:13:17]:
Yeah. If I have a follow up question but if somebody wanted to check out that, that self assessment tool, where did they go to to find.

Alec Broadfoot [00:13:26]:
Yeah, it's called the Talent Impact Profile. And for your listeners we would be happy to offer a complimentary assessment for one full organization. So yeah, they can, they can reach out. I don't know how. Kenny, if you have some show notes we can put the link in there.

Kenny Lange [00:13:42]:
But yeah, we'll have it there.

Alec Broadfoot [00:13:44]:
We can do that. Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:13:46]:
So we'll, we'll so just pause it. Go look at that link in the show notes. Hit up Alec and his team and, and it sounds like you're, you're going to get a lot of wisdom. Now you had mentioned both just now, but also at the bit at the beginning that you're finding people may have been in the wrong spot all along. Like your story with this owner and his nephew. What, what are some of the patterns you're seeing there and maybe what are the costs of people being operating in the wrong roles?

Alec Broadfoot [00:14:21]:
Yeah, so the cost of that person in the wrong role is probably job satisfaction. They know that they're not happy, they know they're not hitting performance expectations. So for them happiness would be a job change. The cost organization would be significant. And what I've been noticing and researching is that sometimes we're not aware of a leader's limitations and there may be some other factors. So maybe their hiring manager is actually covering for them, making sure that hey, provide these reports or how's it going with this client? And, and if you were to remove that person from the organization, what would, what would that, what would that delta be? So one of the way, one of the ways that you can ask that question, like for me, if I, I know if I left my business for six months, my business would be fine because my, my integrator and my team is totally capable. So I know that my integrator is strong enough. Right.

Alec Broadfoot [00:15:20]:
So now take it a step further. Let's say you look at an organization's sales department. So if someone, the hiring manager leaves, how would that sales department do? Would they succeed without that sales leader? Right. And if the answer is no, then you probably have the wrong person for that role. So that hiring manager can be, can be covering for the lack of the better term, the ineptness of their employee. Does that make sense?

Kenny Lange [00:15:50]:
Yeah, that. So it sounds like an easy benchmark is just that thought exercise of for leaders in this case. Great. Going back To John Maxwell is good leaders grow by addition, great ones through multiplication. And really they're replicating other leaders, which it sounds like what you're experiencing in your business. But if you're not experiencing that where if that leader goes, then it's the cats away, the mice will play like everything just goes to hell in a handbasket. Then that person may not be running their, their business unit, their team, their department, their division, whatever term is right adequately. Obviously you can give some people a break.

Kenny Lange [00:16:35]:
They're fresh in. They're just, they're brand new. But if they've been there a while, it sounds like that's an easy yardstick to use on whether or not you're. You're compensating for some, some mis hires, some misalignments, or if you truly have a strong, capable leader, which I would say might come down to again, security, because I see that so often on if the sales leader leaves and everybody else is running around and doesn't know what to do or doesn't know how to sell, a lot of times that comes from an insecure leader who's trying to make sure that everything looks good on them personally. And they haven't transferred that skill of I'm no longer an individual contributor. My team success is my success, not my success is my success.

Alec Broadfoot [00:17:22]:
Right. Yeah, you've got that kind of rugged individualist. So another thing that they could do is ask this question as well. So can my current leadership team take my company to the next level? You know, you can. And you can rate it on one to five. What would you give? And it could be a four. Okay, now if we brought in, let's say Jack Welch came back to life, now he were to rate your leadership team, maybe, maybe it's a three or two. Right?

Kenny Lange [00:17:48]:
Right.

Alec Broadfoot [00:17:48]:
So you can ask that question and then you could, you can go person by person. So let's look at the cfo. Can this CFO take my company to the next level? Can my VP of sales and marketing take my company to the next level? Can my director of operations take my company to the next level? So you actually, you go through it, rate it 1 to 5 and it's. It's helps with absolute clarity. And I had a friend client who he, he was, he didn't know what to do because he had a family member in the sales and marketing seat. And we met for lunch a few times. He was distraught. And if I got a.

Alec Broadfoot [00:18:26]:
I gotta be able to sit next to her at Thanksgiving and Christmas and he was saying like, hey, she's pretty strong in this role. I'm frustrated and I said to him, I said can your sister take your company to the next level in sales? And he's absolutely not. He's Alec, thank you, I know exactly what I need to do. And he ended up letting his sister go.

Kenny Lange [00:18:44]:
And she was a tough combo.

Alec Broadfoot [00:18:45]:
Yeah. And, and she was essentially relieved because she felt like she was letting the company down.

Kenny Lange [00:18:51]:
Wow. Yeah, you hear that so often is oh man, I gotta have this tough conversation. Family member, something like that. And then there ends up being relief. Yeah. On the other side, what, what do you advise when, when you're saying to the, to the next level, is there anything that you recommend and people maybe quantifying or, or at least getting a short statement so that there's a clear picture of what does next level mean for us?

Alec Broadfoot [00:19:19]:
Right.

Kenny Lange [00:19:19]:
Right now H, how do you help leaders with that?

Alec Broadfoot [00:19:22]:
So I would look at the, their three year goal, what their three year goal is. So can this person right now take my company to where we want to be in three years and put yourself ahead in time? What does my company look like in three years? We're 50 employees, we have 20 million in revenue. I have a strong leadership team in place. Are, is this the same person that's going to be there? They're going to go from three direct reports to 10 direct reports. Right. So that's how I would do it.

Kenny Lange [00:19:51]:
Which, that's a great benchmark and I use the three year timeline as well within system and sole EOS has that and a lot of other systems do. If you are using a framework that you probably already have some of that data in your company to clearly and simply define what next level looks like. Now what do you find in terms of like companies outgrow people. So sometimes it is a case of a hiring manager brought in the wrong person. They're, they're playing games with, trying to cover for lack of talent, ability, fit any of those, those seven traits as well. But sometimes you start with people and, and I'm sure you've been through this, right. As a founder you start with a group of people or you bring somebody on not, not too far after you get going and they help you and they're a tremendous asset. They're very valuable.

Kenny Lange [00:20:46]:
They're in the trenches with you, you, you, it's, it feels like a bonding in, in the foxhole. But at some point the, it seems like the company has outgrown their capacity, their ability to keep up. And I'm curious what you advise companies on, on whether it is like that one where you need to let a sister go or is it finding, hey, we actually need to start hiring layers above you. We can't just keep promoting you up. How do you think about those situations? And, and maybe do you have some stories that, that you're willing to share?

Alec Broadfoot [00:21:19]:
Yeah. And that's, that's, that's tough. That those are tough situations. But I would, I would say that the company that took you from A to B is not this or the, the individuals, the leadership team that your current employees that took you from, from A to B are usually not the same team that can take it from B to C and C to D. Keep that in mind. And I, I didn't practice what I preached for many years. We've been in business since 2012 and we, I, I feel like we've gone through three cycles of, of team members and so the most Recent one is 2020. I, I got serious on hiring great leaders, running on an operating system and focused on.

Alec Broadfoot [00:21:59]:
I'm like, I'm tired of the drama. I'm tired of employee issues. I'm advising my clients, but yet I'm feeling it myself. So this is stupid. What would I advise my client to do? And I started making those decisions and that's when my company started growing. We grew 4x since that time by having the right leaders in place. And we just, we've had three quarterlies in a row without any people issues that we had to talk about. That, that's been tremendous.

Alec Broadfoot [00:22:25]:
As, as visionaries, it's hard for us and I, I'm a visionary. It's hard for us and by nature we're sensitive individuals and it's really hard for us to make tough people decisions. And I'm talking myself and do you want to deal with acute pain or chronic pain? Right. Ripping the band aid off is, is always the, the, the best, best thing to do. And, and I just would reassure you that the person that you let go is, is 99% of time will be replaced by someone that's superior to that person. You're going to actually gain capability.

Kenny Lange [00:22:58]:
Yeah. It might feel like addition by subtraction. Even though that's scary. What, what really helped you refrain, reframe the situation to change your thinking and push through that discomfort. Was it simply like you said, chronic pain versus acute pain. I'm. The pain has gotten to the point such that I'm no longer willing to tolerate it. But we, that gets talked about a lot in sales conversations is if people aren't in enough pain, they're not ready to buy because they're not ready to change.

Kenny Lange [00:23:33]:
What, what frame helped you push through that discomfort that you and so many visionaries feel?

Alec Broadfoot [00:23:41]:
Yeah, I, I've just, sometimes I have to encourage visionaries like, hey, you deserve better like this. I, I know you care about this employee, but this employee is not cutting it right. They are. They're a C player. You're tolerating a C player. If you had an A player that was amazing. What, what could that individual do for your company? How much more. And I would just, I usually just ask them how much more productive would they be? Usually they're like, oh, they would, they would be two, two times more productive.

Alec Broadfoot [00:24:13]:
So would it be. Sometimes it would be ten times more productive. Right. That's how bad the employee. So you know what would it be worth letting this person go and having a better lack of better term, a better individual in there that can just have your company best interest in mind sometimes I recommend if that employee has your core values, let's take a look at them, let's evaluate them and maybe we can find another position in your company that would better suit their skills. So if they're a cultural fit. Absolutely. Let's figure out how to maintain them.

Alec Broadfoot [00:24:47]:
And maybe there's another opening in your company that, that you can use them for.

Kenny Lange [00:24:52]:
Yeah. Right. Person on the bus. But we need to switch their seat.

Alec Broadfoot [00:24:55]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:24:56]:
And see what we can do. Like you're again the client with the, the nephew in it sound like he was a great cultural fit. He's. He's on the, he's the right person to be on the bus. We just, we needed to swap them to the. I don't know what part of the bus is the sales, but we'll, we'll do, we'll, we'll put them there. Shifting gears slightly because I, I really was fascinated by your. The notion of different visionaries, different integrators, second in commands system and still uses operators as all sorts of terms, but generically you're number two.

Kenny Lange [00:25:29]:
How, how have you seen this be applied? Like what, what's, what are some, some bits of wisdom you're starting to tease out around how can we make sure that we've got right people in the right seats a players. Because I think a lot of mistakes, at least in my experience and you have way more than I do on this. But a lot of mistakes are made in terms of hanging on to people too long or covering for skills when it comes to that second in command because it Usually is based on a strong personal relationship that the visionary has to the that person.

Alec Broadfoot [00:26:06]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:26:07]:
How, how can, how are you seeing or helping people see that relationship differently so that it, it can be a great relationship but also a highly productive one that benefits the company where the, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

Alec Broadfoot [00:26:24]:
Yeah. Both individuals have to do what's best for the company. Right. So that they have to keep that in mind. Regular conversations aren't, are vital. Right. We've had clients who, they're like here are the keys. See ya.

Alec Broadfoot [00:26:36]:
And we get calls later from, from the candidate. Hey, I don't, I don't even know I'm doing a good job. Like hey, did that client sit down or did your boss or our client sit down and share with you what their vision is and how you're going to hold them accountable and how your performance is going to be measured and like. No, absolutely not. So, so that's something that we've incorporated in the last few years as we actually say. Okay, here's what the cadence looks like, the meeting cadence. Here's what the conversation should be. Have 90 day or 30 day, 90 day, 180 day.

Alec Broadfoot [00:27:07]:
One year goals for this role and frequent meetings. I cannot emphasize that enough. I still meet weekly with my number two and early on we were meeting every day for at least an hour. And then that first, let's say the first 60 days we met every Friday for lunch and we would go as long as it took. It took four hours. We would do me four hours and just him understanding my vision and my preferences and my philosophy and him really understanding the business. So just like you would. And when I get presentations, I show a dead plant and a very live plant.

Alec Broadfoot [00:27:46]:
And you know, the dead plant was neglected. Right. It wasn't water, not in sun, all that. But the, the, the living plant, that's, that is, you know, very strong and beautiful with Quinton watered frequently. And that's what it is with any new hire. You want to make sure that you spend time with them and share your expectations and, and come back to the vision. That's, that's a great idea. How's that going to help us get to our, our 3 year target or 10 year target, what have you.

Kenny Lange [00:28:19]:
I, I love that I've, I've advocated for that like the, the high frequency early on. There is, there just is something unique about that, that number one, number two deal, that relationship if you can harness it. Some might call it rocket fuel, but which, which is a, a great book if you are Looking for some additional resources.

Alec Broadfoot [00:28:43]:
Rocket fields are good.

Kenny Lange [00:28:45]:
Managing that relationship.

Alec Broadfoot [00:28:46]:
Yep. And make the Noise Go Away is another good book. Oh yeah, it's called make the Noise Go Away and it's, it's really about that visionary. And number two, it's, it's, it's not a bad one either.

Kenny Lange [00:28:57]:
We'll find the Amazon link and link that up. That's actually one I've not heard about. I have been really happy to see people, people like you. I just blanked on his last name. His first name is Nathan. Wrote a book about choosing your, your second in command.

Alec Broadfoot [00:29:12]:
Yeah. Nathan Young.

Kenny Lange [00:29:14]:
Yeah.

Alec Broadfoot [00:29:14]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:29:15]:
And then Ben Wolf has his book about fractional leadership. But does dip in to that, to that, number two. And more and more people being able to add to the literature around that so that we can have a more fully foreign perspective. So I'm really grateful to see that because when I stepped into that role there really Rocket Fuel was about it. Not a lot of people were talking about it, training on it. It's pretty much just like other duties as assigned.

Alec Broadfoot [00:29:43]:
Yeah.

Kenny Lange [00:29:44]:
Which is not a great way to measure success or anything like what you were talking about. So as people are thinking about the law of the lid, does that take on any special nuances within that relationship of the visionary and their second in command separate from maybe the rest of the leadership team or even further down in the organization?

Alec Broadfoot [00:30:06]:
Yeah. Having a second in command operator integrator that has a high leadership like what you said earlier is a game changer and is essential. Right. You don't want to bring in second in command that doesn't have that leadership capability because that's your entire organization runs on their leadership ability. And if they're not a strong leader, that visionary now has to step in and they have a tendency to micromanage because they're worried about, they're not trusting that leadership's ability. I think it was, I think it was Jim Collins Lencioni. But it says the moment you realize you have to micromanage someone is the moment you hired the wrong person. And so when I see micromanagers, I, I say, okay, is it the wrong person that you're managing or do you have an issue with trust? And, and they, they want to, they want to control.

Alec Broadfoot [00:31:01]:
Right. Then there's fear. What are you, what are you afraid of? What's, what's behind that? And so it's working through that. Sometimes they're just not willing to let go. It's their baby. And other times they actually have the wrong person. They, they they, and I've seen this, they've hired their, their executive assistant and move them into that integrator role and their company's now 200 employees and it's their executive assistant that's the integrator and not a very strong company. Lots of, lots of chaos.

Kenny Lange [00:31:27]:
I seen that too. I've seen it done well where they stairstep that person into low level operations and then director and sometimes it pays off but I think that's probably the exception rather than the rule. So if, if somebody's listening to this and they're saying okay, yeah, I, I definitely, I want to think about my own leadership or I'm a founder and now I'm that you're confirming some suspicions, suspicions I've had Alec about why I'm micromanaging or maybe I, I've just anecdotally been evaluating everybody. What's a great first step, a baby step a leader can take in the next 24 hours, little to no money invested to move towards increasing their capacity as a leader and, and building a great organization.

Alec Broadfoot [00:32:16]:
I, I, I think it's that assessment that they can definitely do that. That's not going to cost them anything. They can have their leader take that assessment. It'll give them a great picture of who they are, what their strong points are, maybe show them what their frustrations are with their performance. So that would be a great next step and, and then just some self reflection. Okay, do I have the team to get me to the next level? Do I, can this operator get me to the next level? Can this integrator, can this VP of sales. This, those would be phenomenal things to do to gain some clarity. And then if they have a coach, talk to your coach about it and what you're thinking.

Alec Broadfoot [00:32:52]:
It's, it's hard to be visionary sometimes. And if you're all alone, right. So surround yourself with great, great people and ask your advisors in your circle for advice.

Kenny Lange [00:33:02]:
Yeah, all, all great things. And just in case somebody zoned out because they were driving or running and now they're panting because they were running so for so hard. But on those next level like you know, can someone get me to this three year you said rate them one to five. Five probably being like absolutely one being you know, no way in hell and, and looking across the board, do you do anything in terms of aggregating that or is it just on a person by person basis?

Alec Broadfoot [00:33:33]:
What we do is a service we offer is, is essentially it's a workshop and it's one on one with Visionary. Really really allowing them to, to share. We call that. It's a people plan workshops. Companies have marketing plans and sales plans and do you have a people plan and that that's a service that we offer and they get really clear in terms of who they need to hire, what decisions they need to make. So that's, that's something that we could do by just having these exercises that we were talking about. I think that'll. That'll get them going in the right, right direction for sure.

Kenny Lange [00:34:07]:
Love that would also recommend check out Alex book hiring your right number two leader. And then if you, if you are watching on. On YouTube or wherever, someone scraped this and put it on the Internet because that happens the. The book next to it who not how which is a just a fantastic book has been been really helpful for me. But if you do feel like you are that that visionary leader that's doing it alone or what I affectionately call the chief everything officer. Even if you have a leadership team but you feel like the chief everything officer, that can be a really great book to help get you a step further towards, towards freedom. And obviously Alec, being part of a strategic coach has probably gotten to hear that at a really deep level. So Alec, if people want to know more about you, more about Vision Spark, anything else y'all have going on, where would you send them? Where can they find you?

Alec Broadfoot [00:34:59]:
Yeah, so our website's visionsparksearch. Com. We got lots of information on there and also on LinkedIn. They're welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn and yeah here to help.

Kenny Lange [00:35:11]:
Awesome. And we'll have all that linked up and we have a few of the other handles for YouTube, Instagram stuff. So wherever you want to do that. We'll have the links to the books that we've mentioned, so go get those. That's also a really low cost way for 15 bucks could totally change your business. And that's a, that's a. That's a good roi. But thank you so much Alec for, for being a guest.

Kenny Lange [00:35:32]:
This is really helpful. Hope to have you back again in the future as more research is coming out. I think you have a lot of wisdom to offer this particular audience. For you, the listener. Thank you so much for listening. We hope that this was impactful and helpful and, and applicable other great adjectives that I'm not thinking of right now, but it would mean a lot if you would like rate, review, subscribe, whatever the right button is on the platform that you consume this kind of content on. One means a lot to me. I want to keep making this.

Kenny Lange [00:36:02]:
I don't do it just because I enjoy the sound of my own voice. I actually avoid it actively. But I know that the people I'm talking to have a ton of wisdom, and I want to keep bringing that to you. Also, it's a free way for you to pay it forward to your fellow leader. Giving more engagement metrics puts us in front of more people, and you never know what conversation might unlock a fellow leader's next step in their journey. So that just be a kindness you could give the world. But until next time, change the way you think you'll change the way you leave. We'll see you.